2/5 88 vs 3bet

You're 65bb effective with 88, if you're going to open to 5x I wouldn't be shocked if you're supposed to go with it.

It's hard to get pairs etc.

88 is kind of on the cusp, where I wouldn't mind folding 77 at every point and I'd mostly be fine raising with 99 at every point.

I guess technically we can call, but I don't love it OOP vs. described V.

pure call i think at equilibrium. would guess you under realize post so maybe jam is best bet

really hard for me to find analogous sim in solver but if you dont know what to do post i really doubt you are going to make calling pre work

Interesting spot where it seems either jam or fold, given that effectives are just 65 straddles, with you requiring 46%. Te me these are the key variables:

• Villain has 3bet squeezed from BN, which gives him a narrower 3bet range than if he'd squeezed from the blinds
  
• Villain may well be trying to isolate the whale which could widen his 3bet range
  
• Villain is probably smart enough to 3bet Hero with a different range to Villain (assuming Hero is playing standard TAG)
  

To me the latter point is crucial. While he may be 3betting Villain with AT, he may be using TT+/AQs+ versus you, a range against which 88 is generally a fold.

I played in a 2/5 game recently where a whale was on tilt (so was being mega-whalish). A pro 3bet him (as was happening a lot), whale snapped shoved for 500bb and pro snapped called with 77 (correctly I believe; I mean, the pro won and whale had relative airballs). There was a straddle in the hand, so effectives were 250 straddles.

But the point here is that Hero isn't the whale and Villain is likely smart enough to adjust ranges to player type, even though V's a lag.

Isn't the reverse also true? H can be opening a wide range against whale and gets 3bet accordingly

Yes, depending on how aware and sharp Villain is. I mean everyone should be widening their ranges in these games. But we haven’t been given a description of Hero — I’d reckon most 2+2ers under-adjust in these circumstances (myself included). I mean we just need to assess whether Villain is treating us as substantially different from the whale (TAGs can look like pure nits in action games). If V believes we are widening then 88 is more likely a shove, obv.

Is the 20 usually on? And is 100 your usual open after a limp?

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Finally learned Grunch meaning
I do that with all my posts.

From your description, I don’t think you can credit villain with much on a button raise.

If you shove, he likely folds - not a bad result.
If you call, it could get tricky

The rock straddle confuses me. I don’t know rocks that straddle, but assume he & whale fold. What about 4Bet to $750? It might confuse villain, but I don’t know what advantage it would gain. Not a lot of wiggle room.

So, I’m going with the shove. If he has overcards, he’s got a 32% chance of pairing one of them. I have a made hand and despite the bet, laggy has many random hands. I don’t think he’ll be willing to flip for stacks, but there’s equity if he does.

Funny, I thought the same thing as illiterat mentioned, if it was 77, I would fold without a second thought. So, I guess I’m at the bottom of my range for this, but I still like the jam. The only time I’m in real trouble is if he has a bigger pocket pair.

One of the smartest things I’ve read on this site so far and applies to many of these hand histories. There is a time to call, but not very often OOP.

I assume "Rock straddle" refers to a literal object that has no cash-out value but acts as the straddle for the player in possession of it.

Rock straddle is only on when a player won it from previous pots. They must be used on the btn or utg.
It's only worth 10$ straddle, but you can add another 10 on top.
It's out maybe 2~3 times an orbit.

It's my usual open size vs rock straddle for 20 + a limper.
But probably not opening as much with a 20$ straddle unless vs the whale.

Doubt a V that open/4! to 400, then folds to a 1k 5! shove is defending optimally. To which, I agree with DrTJO that V may be 3!'ing with that range, but I strongly doubt they call off with most of it. H is OOP, it's 65 straddles effective, and there's 440 / ~1/3 the size of H's stack in the pot already.

I shove and don't really worry about it. Rough guess, I think V folds everything but QQ+/AKs, and I'm not sure about QQ or AKs. So about 60% of the proposed 3! range, assuming AKo's in it. If I wanted to play smaller, I'd have overlimped, expecting V to open, then decided if I still wanted to go set-hunting OOP afterwards.

This is why I love you guys!
Now I know what a ‘rock straddle’ is….

I hate showing up somewhere with a new thing I don’t know about. I like the randomness, seems fun - wouldn’t mind

But IMO, no promotion beats the 30 minute high hands with roll-over.

If we plug in the numbers into a fold equity calculator, we need him to fold just north of 40%.
If we assume he goes with JJ+, AK (60 combos)
We need him to fold ~27 combos
If we give him AQo, KQo, that's 12 combos each.
Assuming he is telling the truth about the ATo hand, his range is probably at least a bit wider than that so jamming can't be too bad.