2 preflop spots

Hand 1: you should have some reads since you played with her. If she only has KK+ you have to fold since her range is mainly AA, otherwise you have to go with it. The backraise weakens her range IMO but I never played with her. The problem with folding is that it assumes she literally never does this with anything other than the nuts, which is pessimistic. Also if you go with it, I would rip since she's not folding preflop but without AA/KK she may fold postflop.

TL;DR I rip, unless I'm convinced its nuts only.

Hand 2: seems more like a call and play poker spot.

Hand 1, I've played with her but I've never seen her back 4bet ever before.
Her open range is super tight. That's all I know about her preflop. Postflop, she plays overpairs with extreme caution, will pot control/check down if necessary.

HH#1:

I'd probably go $80 to offer poorer 8:1 IO in a pot where I'll mostly always be committed postflop, but whatever.

I've folded KK preflop 4 times, or about once every 1650 hours. I would strongly consider it here against someone described as a super passive female.

GcluelessKKfoldingnoobG

HH#2:

Against an unknown (and especially female) I just fold here until I have a better read.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Hand 1: Have you seen V call a 3bet with QQ or AK? Without a positive read about her 4bet range, I would never fold KK here, ever.

Hand 2: 4x 3bet IP suggests the stronger end of the range, but the 21 dollars in dead money (I’m assuming the straddle and limpers folded) makes a call reasonable. JJ in this spot is one of the only times I will call a 3bet. I’m 4betting QQ. I prefer to tighten up in loose splashy games, so in this case, I’m folding.

no way im folding KK in hand 1 for 100 bb in a splashy game vs an asian lady. vs gobbledygeek or a 90 year old white guy, sure.

The dead money gives her every reason to backraise. Never underestimate the frustration factor either. It's basically 100BB, go with it, not close for me. You might even get UTG to come along for the ride. Imagine how you'd feel if you fold, UTG calls with QQ and then V2 shows AJo.

H2 as WereBeer said, call and play poker. By all means fold hands like 99 OOP against an unknown.

For those who want to flat and "play poker" in HH#2, the SPR is going to be lol 1.5.

Gwhat'sourplan?G

gg like all pros, my plan in these situations is to flop a set. Get on my level.

Really I probably go with it when we have overpairs or Q-high or otherwise a decent hand. This is a loose splashy game with an unknown player, 4bet pre seems like overkill but overall a reasonable spot to show up with a strong hand.

KK is seldom a "snap fold" and it wasn't here. I folded KK pre maybe three times and only one of them was a good fold, although one of the other times villain showed AA it was still a fish fold from me.

Pretty hilarious spots tbh; I would fold both. (Haven't looked at the spoiler.) Given V description and priors I expect you to be behind in both hands.

The one thing I'd say to this is that even though we weren't behind in hand 2, we also weren't ahead. And we don't have position. And you only invested 32. So folding here is totally fine even given her hand.

H1 - I'm not folding. I'm probably jamming. If this is how she plays AA, she's just going to get paid.

My reasoning is that you're 10-handed in a loose-splashy game. Someone with AA wouldn't want to risk starting a call train by just flatting a UTG open, and have to play the rest of the hand OOP and multi-way.

If the UTG opener is tight, I think she'd be even more likely to 3B. If he's a little looser with his opening range, and if there are LAG players in late position or the blinds, maybe she would chance having this go multi-way, but that's a lot of assumptions we'd need to make before we fold KK.

If every hand is getting 3B pre, and if we're very sure she'd only play AA this way, maybe I could see folding here. But if there are any hands that are going multi-way following a single raise, or if we're not sure she doesn't do this with QQ/JJ, I don't think I could fold.

I will note that it's odd she's back-raising to $250 if she's only starting with $500. That will often be AA that doesn't want you to fold, but could also be QQ/JJ that just wanted to see a flop rather than 3B, but now decides to turn her hand into a bluff facing a 3B when she'll be OOP post-flop.

I don't think there's any shame in getting it in with KK here. If you're always folding KK to this action, you're probably over-folding, even if only slightly.

H2 - I'm not folding. I'm not jamming. I'm just calling.

My reasoning is that our $32 raise size might have induced this 3B, and we don't need to be that strong when we open from the CO. She could likewise be raising light.

It kind of sucks that we're only $500 deep to start the hand, which isn't deep enough to set-mine. But with JJ, I don't think we're just set-mining. Our hand can be played as a bluff-catcher on a lot of boards.

Like, if it comes out 9-high, we can check-call if she makes a reasonable sized c-bet, and continue to check-call across a lot of turns. If it comes A or K high, we'll probably need to fold. Even if it comes Q-high, she shouldn't have a lot of QX in her range, so I'd probably still call flop, and evaluate on the turn.

As a general rule, I wouldn't 4B with JJ.

Respectfully as I can say this - you post a ton of hands, and a lot of them seem like they don't need much discussion, or the way you frame your questions about them indicates you view them as spots where we always or never take a certain action.

It leads me to think you're over-thinking things, and also looking for off-the-shelf solutions in a lot of spots, rather than forcing yourself to reason your way through these spots logically, and accepting the outcomes as being a simple matter of variance, or the result of being wrong sometimes, which is just a fact of the game.

For instance, you're supposed to go broke with KK vs AA, around 80% of the time, almost regardless of the action. We all are. 20% of the time, we'll win. And either way, it's just variance. If you're trying to think your way to losing less than 80% of the time, you're very likely to end up costing yourself EV.

There are situations where you might fold KK, but this really isn't one of them, no matter what you think, and no matter what anyone here says, especially after they've read the reveal.

Yes, maybe the back-raise for 1/2 her stack is AA this time, and maybe with this V specifically, it's always AA, but you could have the same read on another V, and they could be doing this with QQ/JJ or AK, and you'll want to lay down in traffic if you fold KK and they reveal their hand.

Your read could be wrong, or maybe they're tilted this hand, or whatever. If you just never fold KK pre, you're probably not losing as much EV as you are if you start looking for spots to fold.

But even before reading the reveal - the very fact that you posted the hand to the forum is going to lead people to think, "Ooooh, this must be a spot where we should fold," which is just nonsense and guessing. If they happened to guess right, it wouldn't change the fact that you shouldn't be looking for reasons to fold KK pre.

The JJ hand is much worse as a ship, even though we happened to be ahead, and happened to win, which I think supports my point about how the responses you get here are likely to be overly filtered through people's skewed perceptions and wanting to guess the outcome correctly, and my point that you're looking for off-the-shelf solutions, when you put both these hands into the same bucket, and label it "shove or fold?"

These hands are different enough to not be put into the same bucket. H1 is almost always a shove. H2 is usually going to be a call, and sometimes we'll just lose when we have to fold post. If you're playing it as a jam or fold pre, you're just adding to the variance.

You happened to win here, but you'll lose around half the time when you get it in pre vs AK. We'll lose less if we flat call and make good decisions post-flop.

To GG and anyone else who says you can't call in H2 because the SPR will be 1.5, I'd point to the fact that V had AK, and called our jam. We could have flatted pre, and played our hand as a bluff-catcher, check-calling the whole way, or folding if an ace or king comes out, and saved part of our stack.

Even against a super passive female, I think we shouldn't be folding KK all the time in the first hand history starting 165bbs deep. Maybe flip a coin or use some other randomizer to get it in here all-in preflop at least 50% of the time.

In hand 2, we are too shallow to fold JJ and also too shallow to call up to $125 OOP. With the $7 straddle on, we are basically than 70 straddles deep. As CO PFR versus BTN unknown female 3bettor, I think we should be mostly 4betting jamming JJ because we are OOP. A lot of flops won't be good for JJ, so we are incentivized to 4bet jam pre, so we don't have to navigate a tricky postflop spot OOP. 4bet jam is definitely a better option than calling OOP to the 3bet.