Calling down a known bluffer with middle pair
10-handed 1/2 NLHE
V, MAWG, is to H’s immediate left. He understands poker, how to play against this loose/passive/scared$ group, etc., but he’s overly aggressive, over bluffs, and chases too much. He is not scared money and will go w/ most draws. Straddles a lot.
Hand History:
V ($150) straddles LP for $5. One limp, H (covers) raises to $20 w/ black 99, V calls, limper folds.
Flop ($40): Tc8s5h, H bets $25, V calls.
Turn ($90): Tc8s5h 8c H checks, V shoves, H calls. River is a blank and MHIG. He claims 77.
Of course, this passive table is shocked that I called.
The actual hand happens maybe an orbit later.
V ($450) straddles LP for $5, one limp, H (covers) raises to $20 w/ 9c8c, V min-raises to $45, limper folds, H calls.
Flop: ($90): Td9s2d, H checks, V bets $75, H tank calls.
Turn: ($240): Td9s2d 2h, H checks, V shoves.
At first I thought that he was on a draw and that it was a call, then I remembered he knows I’ll call him light and maybe he was actually going for value, then I wondered why not really try to get value w/ a smaller bet. I really got in my own head.
I know this is a table read, but do you guys follow your first gut instinct and sigh-call or just give it up?
Thoughts on the first hand and this one otherwise?
7 Replies
The min 3bet is a bit scary, but you have more sense than us on his 3b range
I think I let this go, but it's really close, and two things give me pause for concern.
i) Overpairs especially AA, KK don't need much protection so why overbet shove Turn
ii) Your tank call may have him assuming you are weak
Can't blame you for calling.
Isn’t your hand just a bluff catcher? 75 is a large flop bet by V given that hero called V’s 3bet pre. I can get behind calling 30 or 40 on the flop, but not 75. I’m hating life on the river if I call this bet against a LAG. You have no real draws. Except for a 9, all the river cards suck, even an 8 doesn’t give you much. certainty. I’m probably folding the river.
Pretty thin all around, but if you’re ok battling for stacks then call and hope you hold bc he doesn’t have air. If he does then it’s not even a discussion it’s just whale stomping.
Based on the very limited hand history and read, it seems like he prefers to pot-control pre with his middling pairs, then bluff big on later streets when you show weakness or he thinks he may be behind.
Hard to think he's min-click 3B'ing pre and jamming turn with a middling pair in the second hand. He may be betting small to keep you in. So I'd probably release this one.
This was a tough one for me -- as I said, I got in my own head. After I tanked for a little while, I thought, Why would he shove and not try to get some value, even if I did call earlier? It wasn't anywhere close to this big of a bet. I went, "f it, " and put the money in. Lucky for me, I was right: he had AdQd. Great flop for him, and he missed the river.
Very player/read-specific, but I think it's important to remember to follow your gut sometimes and think things through.
Often a "gut feeling" is a tell that you can't identify. I think it is good to go with them when you have your level of knowledge of your villains. Even better would be to figure what you saw that made you think it was a bluff.
When facing a known bluffer, you need to have an MDF calling range, which for a 1.5x shove would be the top 40% of your hands.
Would 98s be in the top 40% of your hands that get to this turn?
