5-5-10-20 hand
5-5-10-20 live home game (5-5 with double straddle on) — $2, 100 effective (villain covers) - 7 handed
Hero opens HJ $70 Kd Kh, SB 3bets small to $200, Hero 4bets to $575, SB calls
Flop: Tc 9s 8c — Pot $1185
Villain checks, I check
Turn: 2h — Pot $1185
Villains check, I ($1525 left) ?
Villain seems to be a solid player over a couple sessions, he’s from out of town and plays for a living afaik. I have reason to believe he is 3betting lighter than usual this hand. He also made a comment while calling pre that discounts AA from his range substantially. He would likely perceive me as 4betting more narrow than I should be, heavily weighted to overpairs, while he is calling lighter than he should. I think he will 3b/call all SCs 45-10J and likely 1 gaps 57-j9. Not sure how low he goes with pairs in this line, he may just call pre with 55-88 maybe 99. Considering he sees me unbalanced towards qq/kk/aa/ak I’m not sure if he calls a big 4b here with suited wheel aces, aqs, ajs, kqs, qjs even if he is splashing.
SB should have a large leading range on this flop but I don’t know if he does. Since he likely sees me unbalanced towards the best overpairs it makes it less likely he does. He’s also seen I don’t like to fold the top of my range when capped, which again makes it less likely he leads flop and makes me think he is likely to check range to realize equity with unmade hands. If he checks range I should be checking behind.
After villain checks turn I think some 67, qj, 88/99/1010, 89/810, 910 can be discounted but I’m not sure how much. He can check again without losing much ev given there is only just over 1 psb left and he can easily jam river if turn checks back.
How would you play turn when checked to and if you bet what sizing?
8 Replies
What did Villain say/do that makes you think that you should be discounting him having AA heavily?
Said he was calling to hit and he had been honest every time I’d seen table talk like that so I somewhat believed him. He got a count and wavered on if he thought he had odds to set hunt or crack me or whatever then said fk it and tossed in the call. Didn’t think it was Hollywood
Pre is a mix and your sizing is too big in theory, but if he's 3bing too much, calling a 4b too much and giving tells away for free in the process, then you played it perfectly lol.
The only reason I'd check flop is if we're range checking (which I think is fine/good on this flop specifically), so definitely not checking turn on a brick.
No one here is studied in this spot, lol, but I don't see anything wrong with just b/cing ~1/3 of your remaining stack, clicked up a little bit for protection. Like $555 or whatever.
Oh I’m aware it’s a bigger than standard 4bet but it gets called here way lighter than it should lol.
He asked for a count at the end of talking and kinda just tossed in the call after getting a ballpark number before it was actually counted down.
Said he was calling to hit and he had been honest every time I’d seen table talk like that so I somewhat believed him. He got a count and wavered on if he thought he had odds to set hunt or crack me or whatever then said fk it and tossed in the call. Didn’t think it was Hollywood
So did he immediately ask for a count from the dealer on how much you reraised him for the 4bet right after you put out the 4bet?
Or was there a long pause before he asked for the count?
What does he think of your 4bet? Do 4bets ever happen in these games? In some of these live games 4bs are AA/KK so I'm just wondering if you feel you're telegraphing your hand here which of course is terrible. If you feel you're not then the 4b is good and just bet call the flop with 1.5 SPR.
Game really isn’t that soft, 4bets are pretty common from a number of players. Had someone 5b/fold vs me very deep a couple days ago lol
Some solutions I’ve looked at approximating the hand take KK and jam turn even IP at a decent frequency (moreso than it jams any hand given KK needs the most protection as it doesn’t have the straight outs/blockers of QQ/JJ and is vulnerable to an ace) which I found surprising and interesting. If villain gets to the node with enough 13 out hands like j10, j9, 78, 79, plus dumber hands like 710, j8 plus all the other smaller or larger chunks of equity he may have like 57cc, q9, q10, Jj, Axcc, etc. maybe just giving villain a -ev call and denying equity at this SPR is ok? Would anyone consider this in game?
I haven’t run it in pio myself yet but when I get time knowing his hand I can assign a few different pessimistic ranges and node lock a few strategies to see what it says about this
As already remarked, your 4bet is too large in theory; but then again V's 3bet was too small and I have no clue how the 4bet size should be adjusted to that.
Anyway, with the double straddle on, you are 105x deep and the preflop action set up an awkward SPR otf.
On this specific flop, I don't mind checking back range, but it would be interesting to know what a solver would do.
OTT you have to bet imo, the question is how much. So, you don't want to give the right odds to all the draws and pair+draw which V might have, but if you bet too large you will be almost pot committed on the river. Really don't know what the equilibrium point is.
In game, I'd probabyl just jam (kind of proud that the solver does that too 😉 ).
On flop solver basically checks range ip if sb is forced to check range first.
If allowed, solver prefers to lead 50%+ on flop as sb including open jams (unless the 4bet range is EXTREMELY tight- in this case it leads much less). SB leading flops weakens the sb flop checking range so in this case the ip player will bet flops.
