Couple hands w/ tilted V
1/3 NLHE 8 handed
V - thinking loose passive, can read the board but doesn't care at all about what you could have or are representing. plays AA as a tarp exclusively basically never 3-betting (so 3-bets % pre is quite low and skews towards QQ/KK/AK). VPIP about 50%. This session V has been losing, H1 was played right after V got stacked and rebought for 500, H2 not long after that.
These hands had a couple marginal spots just wanted to see what you guys thought..
HH: V opens EP to like 10 or 12, twenty-seven people call, H sees K♦ Q♦ in SB and makes it 100, V shoves 380 total, twenty-seven people fold, H folds, V shows TT.
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H1: V effective at 500, fish has 600, H covers
Folds to V in CO who opens 25 cold, folds to H in SB who sees A♠ 9♠ and calls, BB fish 100% VPIP calls - 3 ways OOP SRP.
Flop 75 - 7♠ 6♣ 5♥
checks through
Turn 75 - 3♠
H bets 50, fish folds BB, V calls in CO
River 175 - 2♦
H bets 120...
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H2: LP pre FOF post fish opens 10 UTG, V calls UTG+1, H to 40 in CO with K♣ T♥, both call - 3-ways IP 3BP.
Flop 120 - J♣ T♦ 3♠
Check, check, check
Turn 120 - T♠
Check, V bets 100, H calls, fish folds
River 320 - 6♠
V checks, H bets 110, V clicks to 220...
18 Replies
Fold pre and fold pre
I like the flop checks in both spots. It keeps the pot small and gives the loose guys room to bet into you when they miss which is exactly what you want.
fold pre both times, not really close
would 3b or fold h1 pre, ap would lead flop small, i think id bet turn small, and id give up river w ur combo particularly vs the pfr
h2 dislike river sizing, am undecided re the turn but i lean towards raise, dislike pre here as well
Fold pre both times. Seriously.
H1 is terrible. If he folded on the river, more power to you.
H2, raise the turn! As played, just check behind on river vs. this guy. What's he calling with?
H1:
I think it's closer to fine preflop, given BB is going to VPIP any2. We still need to worry a lot about what V is raising.
It's probably still slightly bad calling but not as bad. Also not sure 3bet is better.
Can lead small flop, puts all his overs in a world of pain ... esp. when you bet bigger on this turn.
Obvious give up on river, esp. with your combo.
H2: Go home SB you're drunk.
FWIW: Would much rather shove turn than bet river. If you are going to bet river then I think 220ish is better than your size but it depends a lot on his calling ranges here ... and there's some value to checking and showing your any2 3bet. Not sure what to do vs. the min. raise, all options seem bad ... if you think he can bluff a decent amount here (or massively overvalue worse) then I guess sigh call. Given you 3bet and he called I'd assume he can have a lot of flushes and FHes, so probably just fold by default.
hand 2 i have no idea what you are targeting with your river bet. nothing worse will call.
HH with KQs, it could be a flat call initially. Folding to the shove was a mistake. You were getting about 2-1. AA/KK, which you are in the worse trouble against, might flat call at low stakes. You have odds to call.
As mentioned, preflop fold H1 and H2. A9s is pretty weak and the guy cold opened 8xBB. He probably has you dominated with AT+/99+. I like the way you played H1 postflop.
KTo is a trap hand you should almost never play in a low stakes cash game. If you hit a pair or two-pair, you are often in trouble. 3-betting it is a good way to lose a big pot. H2, I would bet the turn and probably x/r the turn as played. River, your small bet looks like thin value like it is. You are getting 6-1 to call the x/r. The x/r is a donk play whatever he had. I guess I would call and expect to lose.
Grunch...
The KQdd hand, I'd probably just flat, not 3B when the size is going to have to be huge, and V is starting out somewhat short.
The A9ss hand, either check again on turn, possibly to check raise, or over-bet, to rep a strong hand that was going for a check raise on the flop and doesn't like the BDFD appearing. The 2/3p bet doesn't accomplish what you want it to. The river bet looks okay, if we think his range is mostly unpaired over-cards and missed draws. We might actually have the best hand.
The KTo hand, I don't know if we should be trying to ISO hands like this in spots like this. It seems like we're bloating the pot unnecessarily with a marginally playable hand.
Think we could raise turn, but I don't mind the call when he almost pots it. The river raise is weird. Like, he's going for a trap by checking, then he just min-clicks it? This sort of smells like AsJx that isn't willing to commit to the story he's trying to tell.
Definitely not folding to a min-click. Hard to find a good reason to 3B, so I'd just call.
I'll explain some reasoning and give results just to get feedback -
H1: A9s is just ahead of so much of his opening range here, BB is passive, but I don't feel A9s gets called by worse in a 3-bet scenario so either fold or call seems reasonable. Wide config, vs guy who just got stacked...this could be any suited K, some QT, QJ, worse AX, lower ♠ - just too much that I'm ahead of here and my hand plays fairly easy post unless I run into a RIO A-high board. OTF I would donk heads up but 3-ways I decide to check, once it checks through I know this V never has an OP. Turn I decide to bet 50 to get inelastic calls from A-high and some worse hands like KX♠♠ or just T9s for a naked gutshot. I know this V isn't folding two overs for one 2/3rds PSB. Fish folds. HU to river and its another somewhat scary connected card so I bet enough to get AK to fold (I thought).
H2: When this fish opens 10 (he had a sizing tell, 20 for big hands) and V calls next to act, they just have so much garbage in their range, KTo is really a value bet albeit an thin raise. Flop check okay, Turn I make trips and V bets almost pot, I assume he has very little JX and is mostly on draws. I decided lets see if he'll bluff with missed draws on the river - I didn't think a draw is calling a big raise on the turn after betting close to pot. River backdoor diamonds come in - sucks but still have treeps to go for some value so bet 1/3rd. Aaaaaaand he minclicks and I don't stop to slow down and think about it long enough and call....
Result:
Spoiler
H1: V folds, I get my A-high bluff through. H2: I call the river minclick for worse, V shows J♠2♠
You need to be much clearer in your "reads" and give explanations ... and do it up front. The splits opening range between 10/20 is obviously big, and people are very likely to have experience with it (don't think KTo is a great 3bet though, but it's certainly better than without the read).
The second one where the read is that V is super tilted opening 8x with any2 ... can change things, but should have a much lower confidence (esp. given your recent "V is passive" thread). I'm pretty sure if I've lost a big hand in the last couple of hands my AA/KK hands make way above average value (maybe just randomness, or human perception of it).
Also, the logic:
Preflop: A9s is just ahead of so much of his opening range here ...
Turn: I decide to bet 50 to get inelastic calls from A-high and some worse hands like KX or just T9s ..
River: HU to river and its another somewhat scary connected card so I bet enough to get AK to fold (I thought).
...you are bluffing huge to get a range you mostly beat to fold.
The bet is around 2/3 pot. I wonder if AK/AQ sometimes hero calls if OP makes it 1/2 pot or less. I also wonder if V doesn't sometimes bluff big with worse if hero checks, or if he clicks it back occasionally when hero bets small, forcing hero to fold the best hand. If hero makes some better AX fold more often when he goes a little bigger, and sometimes avoids being bluffed, it seems okay. Maybe minimally +EV against a V like this.
if youre going to play A9s you should 3bet it pre.
H1:
Even though stacks are deep, I'm assuming the set of hands we should be the first one flatting an lol 8x+ open preflop OOP (even with 100% fish behind us) should be extremely small and A9soooted likely doesn't make the cut.
Think I'm ok with a turn steal attempt.
Is the river bet for value? Cuz we have the best hand like almost always, no? But going this big with A high seems unlikely to get called by worse. Or are we trying to fold out bigger Ax? Think I just take my showdown value and expect to win a lot.
GcluelessNLnoobG
H2:
Preflop seems a little overambitious to me, and the preflop result sucks (and I'm guessing isn't necessarily unexpected).
Think we have the best hand a lot on the flop and can get called by worse / protect, so I might lean to a cbet and evaluate.
Also just calling the turn to see what happens on the river (unless stacks are commited).
I like our small value bet on the river targetting overpears / Jx / weaker Tx that may be scared of the flush. And I now hero fold to the check/raise (which is nuttish ime).
GcluelessNLnoobG
HH: KQs is a great hand to go eleventy ways in a raised pot, but a shitty one to three-bet a strong EP-raise range.
H1: Ditto preflop re: the range you yourself have established. I'm learning, slowly, how to check this turn. If V checks behind that's great, and if he bets all plays are open to us depending on his vibe.
H2: c'mon man. wtf.