2 hands vs Maniac
Ok this is not played live but maybe close enough(fishy/loose callers, aggro opens/3bettors, nonstandard stacksizes/open sizings, 9 handed)
Maybe this is better place than online forums for such hand.
Ok game is 9 handed roughly equivalent of about 100NL(0.5/1$) in asian app with squid game(you lose 22bb or more every 11 hands if you don't win a single hand).
The pool in general are very fishy and aggro at the same time.
Villain is crazy aggro. He's down over 800bb this session. X/r mwp flops with air/tpnk/etc. His flop x/c range is fairly weak though. In mwp, when flop is checked thru, he bets turn+river with random air mixed along with value hands.
Spoiler
HH1
Hero in UTG opens for 5bb, like 5-6 players call including villain on btn.
Flop 256r, Hero cbets 1/2 pot, Villain bluff raises 3x w/QJs??? We folded JJ.
HH2
Villain in EP+1 limps, some limpers, Hero open to 5.5 bb, EP flats, Villain limp/squeezes to 30bb w/T7s, Hero flats
Flop Q74 V cbets 2/3,
Turn K V potships?? we snapped with KK.
HH3
V squeezes w/T3s, potcbet on kq7r vs 2 players.
HH4
Some limpers including villain in mp. Hero in SB opens to 24bb w/AJo
Flop AK8r Hero cbets 1.05x, Villain calls
Turn 6, check check
River J, Hero bets 1.05x, Villain calls(assumes he has an ax or maybe even Kx)
HH5
mwp
Flop kt6r pfr cbets V flats ip w/t7
Turn 6 pfr bets V raises 3x???
River 3 check/check
HH1
This is the very first hand of a new squid round.
Effective stacks 800bb
Villain UTG+1 limps
HJ limps
We in CO pick up A♦T♦ opens to 9.5bb (We've sized down with deepstacks from recommendations here lol)
They both call
3way pot 33bb
Flop A♥9♥Q♦
both check
Hero???
We normally cbet here 100% of the time. But against a maniac, we should just check back? or cbet anyway???
If we cbet, we bet/calling right? Then what do we do on turns???
Or go the easy route and pot control flop???
HH2
About an orbit later
Villain only has 720bb effective now
5 limpers including V in HJ as last position.
Hero in BB w/KK opens to 11bb, 3 callers, Villain in HJ limp/squeezes to 70bb.
We are 4betting right? What's our 4bet sizing?
9 Replies
HH1: you can't materially deter the heart draw, unless you feel like going b/3!, so x-back, play two streets and hang on. Both Vs are gonna go nuts..
HH2: 165bb/call. Whoops, saw OOP. Ehh, not sure it matters. Depending on your image, how about a jam? Yes, it's huge compared to the pot.
Check back every flop with every hand. Hand 2 go nuts.
Spoiler
Hand 1 we checked back, was afraid of those check/raises.
Turn a blank, both check, we bet 1/2 pot and took it down.
Hand 2
In game I got too excited I ignored proper 4bet sizing, I just clicked it to 240bb and pray he calls or something. He ended up folding.
It was pretty obvious when he did limp/3betting a few time with trash that his squeezing range is very air heavy.
Against a weak range we either 4bet small to like 160-180ish, or just call oop and check/raise non A flops.
The only problem with calling oop is that there are still 3 guys behind, it might entice them to call as well.
hand 1 just check flop man, let him light himself on fire. these dudes love stabbing turn once you show weakness. if you cbet you just make it easier for him to play perfect.
hand 2 yeah easy 4bet. go like 200ish bb, he’s not folding T7s anyway ��
I prefer just betting the flop H1. Would rather size down to keep maniac in wide than give free cards.
H2 - idk raise to 255 bb - this deep we go with a large sizing.
I would also note that given how deep the game is ATs is great hand to raise bigger pre-flop. 20-30bb would be completely reasonable. In super-deep stacked games, ATs is the second-preferred hand to be all-in with preflop after AA.
I prefer just betting the flop H1. Would rather size down to keep maniac in wide than give free cards.
H1 - If we cbet then villain x/r to 4x or whatever we just call. Then turn either a blank or a scare card comes, we still call the 2nd barrel?
After hand I thought about it a bit, I was thinking we miss out alot of value from checking back but we get to control the pot. Or we bet for maximum value then bloat the pot when villain check/raises with his random range.
Then I am thinking maybe we cbetting nutted draws/values vs him?
Because we are not comfortable playing for 700bb+ with tpnk in a single raised pot.
I would also note that given how deep the game is ATs is great hand to raise bigger pre-flop. 20-30bb would be completely reasonable.
My normal open is like 18-25bb with my standard 300bb(I treat this as 100bb) stacks.
Now as stacks get deeper, I go alot smaller as recommended from others here. I will still get 3bet light(aggro pool) whether with bigger or smaller open, maybe I get 3bet light more often when smaller open though. With smaller opens facing 3bets, pot will be alot smaller, it has a bit more room to maneuver.
The only difference bigger opens is that, there are less callers, easier to get to headsup pot. Which is also easier to win pots. But also get into alot of more trickier situations that costs alot.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/170/l...
This link to that other hand that I opened big but was very uncomfortable playing with that deepstacks oop.
If this was opened for like 10bb, I got squeezed for only 50bb, whether I call or 4bet, it feels alot easier to handle.
Also squid value has been deduced, before we were losing 33bb, now it's only 22bb(more if they have 4 or more squids) penalty each round. It's more affordable to pay the penalty now.
In super-deep stacked games, ATs is the second-preferred hand to be all-in with preflop after AA.
What?
Against a maniac his xr range isn't that strong. Does he limp 99? A9 or q9 possible I suppose.
Turn would depend on his sizing, but probably call most bets and eval river. More willing to fold against turn overbets.
I'm not saying to open 20bb, but against limpers, larger sizes are fine. Hero could also 3! Larger. In deep-stacked games late position has bigger advantage and can leverage that with larger raises pre-flop.
Yes - ATs is a better hand to shove than KK at super-deep stacks because of combination of blocker effects and equity against hands that call.
who the hell is suggesting you raise smaller as stacks get deeper? Thats ridiculous, if anything you can start raising larger. Against a maniac just turn up the aggression or become a station when he's betting. In multiway pots play careful, bet small to see who's trapping.
I don't know, are you sure you're up for these games?
There's no universe where we're concerned about pot control with TPGK against described player while the board is still clean. Maybe if you're OOP you check to induce or since you're in position you consider betting small to induce, but never letting a betting round on a clean card go unbet.
HH2 is a mandatory 4bet w KK, and we're snapping a jam all day against this guy's overlimp/re-squeeze nonsense. Maybe we think about flatting AA, but I think that loses too much value with still a >5:1 SPR to get in postflop. 170bbs seems good.
I fully expect an overbet lead jam when the flop so much as kisses their T7s or whatever.
