Open raise 86s OTB?

I'd generally overlimp on this table:

1. Our hand is not great.
2. Stacks aren't deep enough to scare loose passives into folding top pair under pressure.
3. Loose passive limp/call hands like A8o/A6o/Q8ss/K6ss that dominate us.
4. Blinds are likely to overlimp on a loose passive table.

Reasons that might induce me to raise (I'd want 2 of these to be true):

1. Blinds are likely to fold.
2. The limpers are capable of limp-folding.
3. Limpers are fit-or-fold OTF so we can often take it down.

I'd fold if the blinds were active and aggressive. I'd probably usually raise 87s though in this scenario.

It depends on your style and the table. Pretty close between raising, limping behind, and folding.

It depends on how you play it.

I don’t like calling, you end up fit or fold. If what you mean by chasing the high hand is that players are checking it down on later streets, then maybe.

I would fold this hand, unless I was willing to take a very aggressive line. In other words, if I can’t make these players fold, I would fold.

The image factor leads me to favor fold.
Being loose, villains probably don’t put you on strong hands when you raise. Villains being loose means you probably can’t make them go away.

We all like to bluff the button and vs one opponent, I likely come out barreling. But against 2 or more, I’m just not getting involved

Personally, I like limping behind in position and would never fold this hand on the button.

If you are going to raise it, I would raise largish and sometimes bluff representing AK or JJ+ postflop.

Fold. They're raking 10 bucks.

Unless it is California, not so much if a small pot. If you raise, yeah, likely the full rake, but not always in a limped pot. Plus high hand equity. Some of the "rake" goes for high hand and bad beat jackpot.

Folding is perfectly fine though.

Results

Hero bets 15. SB and limper call. Hero whiffs flop and never saw Vs' hole cards.

You are going to whiff the flop a lot with 86s. There are some situations where you can bluff, but fine to give up some times. If you are going to play fit or fold, you are burning money raising 86s.

What was the flop? Did they both check to you?

no way limping anything is profitable with your rake.

if you're going to play, raise pre. probably the best thing to do is just fold though.

Flop is KJ3r. V1 bets 25. V2 calls. Hero folds.

Obviously, if you raise or limp you have to fold on that flop, usually even without that action.

This is the case more often than not and the same answer I gave in the thread where you asked what to do with 79s vs limpers. I honestly think people are making far too many pre-flop mistakes getting involved with hands like this in high-rake environments. You're so much better off just folding these hands no matter how nitty it seems.

I think you can overlimp here but part of the rationale might be to show that you don't always raise, or that you are not a nit, etc. And on the button you have absolute position, so some fold equity and ability to put pressure on flops no one else seems interested in.
The other thread...97s is a hand I like but in the cutoff is a fold.

I overlimp. Zero reason to raise vs loose-passive opponents unless you can really bluff the flop, but that's tough for a LAG.

There isn't that much difference between raising 86s and calling a raise with 86s. With the raise, you can sometimes represent a big preflop hand. If you hit, your hand is more disguised. Plus they can't be sure your raises are all high cards or premium hands.

IMO raise, limp, and fold are all reasonable plays.

I have great aversion to limping and playing capped. I’d rather play uncapped against loose passives in a big pot with absolute position than play capped for a small pot. 86s is just bluff to get calls on later hands. You make almost no money on it.

Yeah, IMO it is fine to play that way. Versus loose limper, if they see you are raising that sort of thing, they will call you preflop. They usually will call anyway though. And, as I mentioned, they can't be sure you have high cards or a top 10% hand when you raised preflop. If you were getting 3! preflop with any frequency, it would be harder to do this.

This is why it's a fold pre. I know it's an unpopular opinion and people prefer overlimping this to folding but you just don't make any money, if at all, with these hands. I understand button is important here too but in my experience we just play the hand the same way you did 8/10 times, where we go to the flop still MW and either don't even get to see a turn or stab at it on the flop, get called, and give up.

I appreciate the capped v uncapped dialogue but it's just not relevant at these stakes. These people don't pay attention and they certainly can't range for ****. Just play tight af and super aggro with strong hands.

At my games, the loose/passive players limp w/ AA, KK, AK, etc., and they basically do not fold post, so if you hit two pair or better, you are getting paid -- especially if you are considered a LAG. Small player pool, though.