Awkward spot pre with Thing 1 and Thing 2..

I don't mind flatting if you can see a flop but with this set up youll probably get squeezed.

Probably 3bet or fold.

Grunch:

This game doesn't sound all that good. Our position to the direct right of the three fish is terrible. Literally the worst seat at the table. I'd move as soon as possible.

This particular hand is kind of a $hlt situation. We're only starting 60 double-straddles deep. If we were deeper, we could 3B this and have enough SPR to navigate post. Here, if we 3B, we're probably going to fold out the fish to our left, and the SPR is going to shrink rapidly.

On the other hand, looking at the reads and positions, if we flat, the fish might flat behind us. And if I'm looking at this right, the SB, BB, UTG and UTG1 straddles are good TAG, fish, strong LAG, strong TAG. Seems like there's a reasonably good chance one of those LAG/TAGs in the blinds will squeeze this.

Depending on who squeezes, TT could be doing reasonably well vs their squeezing range. Especially if the LAG squeezes, so long as the original opener doesn't 4B, I'd be very happy to back-jam.

I might think that 3b/squeeze will be less common when it's the table nit opening but that assumes the other players are as aware or care about that.
Seems more profitable to call even as a set mine, to invite others on rather than go HU with a possible disadvantage against V range. Not sure exactly how nitty this player is.

Adding to the above, the best case scenario I'd hope to see is a parade of flat calls from all the fish and the TAG on the BTN, a call from the fish in the BB, a ginormous 3B from the LAG in the UTG straddle, and a fold or at worst a flat call from the original opener.

If that's the way it goes after we flat the original raise, I would be pretty happy getting it in with UTG and around $400 of dead money in the pot.

If we give UTG a 3B squeeze range of 99+/AK/AQ, and AJs, there are 42 combos we're ahead of (albeit, barely), and 24 that have us dominated.

If he 3B's wider than that, like 88+ and ATs/A5s, and / or if he finds some disciplined folds with any hands that beat ours, even if he's only sigh-folding JJ and lower PP's, we're printing.

If we only get called by QQ+/AK, and everything else folds, I'd think flatting to back-jam is very +EV when there's a ton of dead money to be won.

I would estimate his range to be [99+, ATs+, KJs+, AQo+]

?

Point taken.

It doesn't seem that good for Banana.

Let me add some clarity. I wouldn't want to play in a game with 3 opponents I thought were good. In a 9 handed game, that's too many, assuming we can change tables to a better game.

I may be spoiled for choices when my local card room is Parx Philadelphia. At this moment on Sunday evening, Bravo shows they have 7 tables of 1/3, and 3 tables of 2/5. Also two 2/2 PLO and one 5/5 PLO.

On Friday and Saturday nights they probably have 20 and 10, plus multiple higher stakes and PLO games going. There's no need to play in a 9 handed low stakes game with only 5 bad players.

H calls 60 next to act. Folds to UTG strong LAG who 3-bets to 280. Strong TAG folds UTG+1. V calls 280 MP.... Banana?

Banana, what are you doing moving up in stakes when you're on a downswing? That's how people blow their whole bankroll. It's best to take shots when you're on an upswing/feeling confident and the bigger game is good. Then again you know that so I'll stop harping on it.

OTTH, I like the initial flat. If it goes 7 ways or something that's not the end of the world as you can pretty much just set mine. When someone loose squeezes you will have some good opportunities to back raise all in.

Now you got the loose squeeze but the flat from the tighter player is concerning. That being said, I probably jam but it's a high variance play, which is why you don't move up when you're on a downswing!

I think between fold equity the times both players fold and the equity you have when called it is likely +EV. Granted I am thinking about this from my own perspective. When I make this type of back jam most of my opponents will give me credit for a real hand, so I think the tight player would likely fold better sometimes, like JJ and maybe even QQ. He might call AK which we're flipping with, and I would expect AA and KK to reraise sometimes so I would partially discount those hands.

The question you've got to ask yourself is whether your opponents will give you credit for a real hand if you reraise, or whether they'll think you're FOS and call you off with JJ or something.

If you don't have much fold equity I would NOT make this play, because really it's kind of turning your TT into a semibluff. You're mainly hoping to pick up more than 50% of your stack with no showdown. When you get called you'll be behind a lot, but you probably have something like 35% equity. If one opponent folds and the other calls you only need 43% with the dead money, so you need fold equity to make up that difference for this to be a profitable play.

Is V nitty enough to just flat with JJ or QQ? That’s the questions. Im assuming he would jam KK or AA. If he isn’t flatting JJ or QQ you probably are in good shape for a back ham. Your TT should be doing pretty well against LAGs squeeze range. Nit might even fold hands that would be flipping against you, which would not be a horrible result. Seems overly nitty to fold and a possible recipe for being outplayed and failing to realize our equity if we call. I’d lean toward just jamming and hoping Mr LAG is being LAGy and that V isn’t dominating us.

Yeah I think most will agree you are spoiled for choices lol. I read the OP want went ''damn, nice table''.

I had a longer post that got eaten, but basically what GWF wrote. Folding pre, backjamming now, but a ton really depends on what H thinks are V1+V2's ranges here.

My own estimate was that the LAG was 3! with a 5% + A4/A5s (Interesting Q #1), calling a backshove with QQ+/AKs, and that the nit had B's initial range he gave, an identical call a shove range. Then, Interesting Question #2 is what are they calling the IP 3! with? My guess is QQ-99, AK, KJs+, 4! with KK+??

If the above, then not counting card removal except for H, Vlag starts with 80 combos and calls 22. Vnit starts with 49 combos and calls 10.

My spreadsheet has B winning about 195 with a shove here. They lose a bunch when they get called, but it gets through not quite 60% of the time. I'm sure card removal plays a role though. So, shoving. And then moving back to the kids' table, as GWF advised. Or taking a break from the game entirely.

Also, another game selection note: With the level of aggression and the amount of straddling going on this game is likely playing closer to a short-stacked 5-10 or 10-20 game than a 2/5 game.

That's another reason not to shot take in this game when you're on a downswing.

idk man i think as you move up its very unlikely you are going to find a public game with more than 5 fish. even at 2/5 i think that basically doesnt happen. if you play 1/3 is a bit different i suppose. seat doesnt look particularly good and it seems unclear to me you should have taken it (you are oop to all of the fish).

i think flat is fine the first time and idk i guess jam now is probably winning though not a ton. i doubt it gets through as much as the thread does - v much doubt squeezer is folding bottom of "value" range given stacks and action. i think you could fold and just not tell anyone too and not be giving up much would guess hes a bit too loose here pre and conceivably playing 3b / fold pre even if thats not the best strategy

i think your best play is probably to pure iso the opener to like 150 pre

O. M. F. G!!!

This is EXACTLY the dream scenario I'd wish for when we flat. Just jam. Put it all in. MP is capped. He never has AA/KK here, and if he's not willing to 4B with JJ/QQ, he's going to be hard pressed to call off when you jam.

LAG's squeezing range is going to be pretty wide here. We may not be ahead all the time, but we'll be ahead enough of the time.

This was played perfectly so far, IMO. Now just stick the rest in.

ETA - the LAG's $280 raise size smells suspicious to me. Why not $300, or $400, if he likes his hand and he'll be OOP post?

I don't know if we're winning this hand, but it would take an act of God to keep me from jamming here, and feeling pretty good about it.

I totally forgot yesterday was Superbowl Sunday when I posted. When I looked at Bravo, I actually thought, "damn, that's a pretty sparse crowd at Parx, even for a Sunday."

I am totally spoiled. I mostly just play Friday or Saturday nights, when the promos are running and the room is packed to the rafters with fish. There's literally no reason to play in a bad 1/3 game (if you believe such a thing exists), and almost no reason to sit in a bad 2/5 game (more than 2 decent opponents, by Parx Friday / Saturday night standards).

As of this moment, 4:50pm on a Monday, they have 7 1/3 games going, 4 2/5 games, 2 40-80 mixed games going, 2 2/2 PLO, 8 people interested in playing 10/10 NL if they can get a game going, and 5 waiting for a 5/5 PLO to start.

When there are bigger games going, the lower stakes games tend to be fish-ponds.

Parx is the place, huh? I'm booking my flights now 😛

Just kidding, it's too cold there this time of year. I'll have to make due with the relatively reg-infested 2/5 and 5/10 in S Florida. There are still lots of fish, but also a lot of pros.

Parx is very likely the best room within a 2hr radius. Almost certainly the best room in a 1hr radius.

I'd guess part of the reason is that there are still no legal card rooms around NYC, which is maybe...90 minutes drive? There are other rooms in the area, but if someone is coming from NYC, Parx is the closest.

Plus, Philly is just full of degens.

Can confirm. I've played in philly maybe 4-5 times for 15-25 hours total (only Rivers and Live!). Once an old asian guy was shoving 500 blind every hand, and people were limp folding. Another an older black guy was tipping the waitresses $10 (who pretty much all knew him) and getting double orders of double shots, then playing almost any2 cards for any amount as close to blackout drunk as possible.

My immediate thoughts on first playing in philly were "Oh, so this is how it's possible to be a low stakes pro"

As to the hand:

Maybe sigh fold the first time and don't tell the fish that's a thing you can do.

After the call and LAG raises I snap ship it and lose.

So you understand why I don't feel any self-imposed pressure to move up to 2/5, and obviously believe me when I post a hand history in which we're starting 500 BB's effective.

I've played 1/3 games at Parx that became 1/3/6/12/24. Also 2/5 that turned into 2/5/10/20. This past Friday the "big" 2/5 game full of degen regs apparently did an entire orbit of bomb pots, and a $200 per person flip just before the game broke.

They upped their game. Last time I sweat it, they were just playing 2/5/10/20, plus $30 to bring it in as a limp, and once an orbit bomb pots. I've seen that game get to the point where almost everyone has $10k in front of them. It's where 2/5 bankrolls go to get spun up or torched.

There's a twice weekly local home game I sometimes frequent. It's ostensibly a 1/2 game, but with straddles starting at $5 UTG and doubling until the CO. I've never seen the straddles get beyond 1/2/5/10/20/40, but it wouldn't shock me to hear they got up to $320 when it's 10-handed. They also do $10 double board PLO bomb pots every orbit. The action in that game is insane.

The games here are good.

Result: I back-raise jam. LAG squeezer folds, nit calls. A-J-J-7-3 and we lose to nit's AQo, LAG says A2s. Now down 19 BIs in 13 sessions :(

why did you flat initially pre?

That sucks. Bigger game. Bigger variance.

Getting it in ahead vs AQ with all that dead money was actually a great result up until he spiked the ace.