Obvious value bet? or instant checkback OTR?

Weird check from the V on the river. What Kx does he have UTG that opens? Can’t have KJhh. We lose to hands like AKhh, AKo, KQs, KQo.

Does this player open 66 UTG or K9s?

I think I only get called by better on the river, so I likely check.

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He's mostly giving up when he checks river so you're usually good, but what worse hands does he have that can call you? He shouldn't have any worse kings. The only thing that could call would be potentially if he was bluffing then hit a pair.

I might bet tiny to try to get called by a weak hand, or to induce a check raise bluff all in. Occasionally this might backfire if he decided to get cute with a better king or full house checking the river.

As played, checking back the river is best. Should we discuss the preflop re-raise? Seems like "fold pre" should be the standard move here.

this one seems like an obvious check. also pre seems quite bad, i get u want to iso the fish but v is utg and ur hand sucks

What's different about this one compared to the AQ hand where you were advocating for betting B10? You think he's putting banana on a lot of floats that turned a draw and then bricked out, causing him to check with stronger hands?

I feel like hands that have us beat are betting almost always. We're blocking a lot of the better value, making it even less likely we're beat. I like the tiny river bet to induce better here than in that other hand.

Check back is fine, but if we're going to bet I would go small and I'm not folding to a raise.

I guess having the Th isn't ideal because we're blocking draws/bluffs, but we're also blocking straights.

idk just seems clear to me he isn't going to spaz vs a small bet here. its different spot. much much more behind in terms of bb too, was multiway otf, op 3b pre. different villain profile too

op has all the good hands and no draws / perceived air. i could see v playing better (kq primarily) sometimes this way too. also the marginal hands op would be betting small arent like tpnk or middle pair, they would be like aa which i dont think ppl think you would fold. i would also be surprised if this is a bet at equilbrium

would cbet smaller i think - this looks wrong (my thought not ur sizing, though maybe changes bc too wide pre)

yah kq is pure x otr. that hand id be more open to betting, this one id just check

think its also really difficult spot if v jams the river

Ah yes, the quintessential go home Banana, you're drunk.

Why do people continue to want to "make moves" with crap hands against level 0 players?

If there's ever a hand where the solver is irrelevant it's this one. Banana is 3-betting a hand that's a pure fold pre against a friend who he clearly has a loose dynamic with. I'm as big of a believer in solvers as anyone, but sometimes you've got to get in the streets and play some poker.

I'm basing my recommendation to bet small to induce purely on the description of a villain who "doesn't take the game seriously," is "great at bluffing," and "likes to rep hands."

I hate not betting for value on the river, but this is a spot where villain either gave up and won’t call with worse or he’s waiting to check-raise and take your stack.

Having followed you awhile, villain and I expect you to stab in this spot, so either we got it or we don’t.

Studied player opens UTG with AK
Gets 3bet but just calls to keep fish in
Check-raises on a killer flop & didn’t expect to get called.
On the turn, v shows he doesn’t care you called, but when Hero calls again, v thinks maybe banana has KJ and slows down.

Again, maybe I’m wrong, but v sees your style and if you jam, it will be tough but he’ll find the call.

Fold pre, check river

I can see you value-owning yourself here a lot against a KQ that doesn't want to value bet the river any more, scared of your AK or KJs. Can't see you getting called by worse very often - are you hoping for a call from QQ?

Don't muck around preflop like this, I'd much rather see you go at it with 54s than KTo.

Grunch:

If you're feeling tired and lazy, you're unlikely to play your best game. That's a dangerous situation when you've been running bad and the game isn't very good. Probably best to change tables, or better yet, just go home, before you get stuck even more.

If you're sitting with $895, and I assume the max BI is $500, and you're stuck a few hundred, then I'm guessing you're in the game for at least $1200 or more? I know it's hard to walk away, but this doesn't sound like a situation where we're likely to get back to even. It sounds like we're going to torch 2-3 buy ins.

Case in point, 3B'ing a UTG open and a call with KTo...

PRE - don't ISO a UTG open with KTo. Especially if we know UTG is competent. Especially if he knows we're stuck and we've been card dead. Especially if he's able to suss out that we'll be squeezing light to ISO the dead money from the fish.

But, if you're going to do this, go bigger. At least $50, if not $60. Make UTG fold and hope the fish calls. This raise size is way too small.

FLOP - with your image, the table dynamics, etc, I think we can probably go bigger than 1/3 pot. At least 1/2 pot, but maybe even 2/3 or full pot.

UTG had an incentive to 4B pre from OOP with AK and QQ+. You're losing to KQ, KJ, K6 (lol), and 66. He's probably not going to fold any PP from 77 to JJ to a single bet. He's likely to call at least one time, to keep you honest, and force you to barrel.

As played, V's x/r size looks kinda FOS, but he might be trying to goad you into spazzing, and we don't want to let his bluffs off the hook, so just call.

TURN - nothing's changed. If we were ahead we still are. Or we're still behind. No reason to raise or fold. Just call.

RIVER - just check back. Our hand is too in between to bet.

That said, if you are fairly certain your hand is best (I'm not), and you think he's capable of finding a x/r-bluff if you bet small, then bet $75, and call if he raises.

Because they're drunk?

Banana daiquiris?

In all seriousness this is the number 1 reason live poker will stay profitable for the foreseeable future. It's not because players are bad (even if they mostly are). It's because it's boring to sit there folding over and over again, so people end up getting involved with hands they (know they) shouldn't.

This happens even in higher stakes games with relatively studied players. With better players the mistakes are more often mistakes of aggression (similar to this hand). I've been on so many tables where I know most of the players and they're all decently strong regs, but for whatever reason every hand goes raise, 3 bet, 4-bet... It's like ego battling combined with wanting to play hands. If you're on these types of tables all you really have to do to profit is have patience and play more reasonable ranges than everyone else.

Regarding the 3bet/4bet war, isn't it good for your image and tilts the other reg when you're ip and have the advantage 3betting the same guy every time. The way I view it is that it's +ev if we know what we are doing.

Don't get me wrong. 3-betting in position is an incredibly powerful and profitable play. There's just a limit as to how many hands you can do it with if your opponent knows how to respond.

That makes way too much sense for this thread. Well done.

I'll be here all week! Remember to tip your servers!

Result:

described villain isn't going to bluff here

dunno the 2 situations seem very different to me from nuance perspective

To be fair, I agree it's relatively unlikely he bluff raises. Given the description of the villain, I still like to dangle that hook out there and see if he'll bite though. He could even call a 10% pot bet with ace high.

Really though the key takeaway for this hand is don't 3-bet KTo vs early position opens, even if it happened to work out this time.

He obviously has air and can’t call anything. Bet 1bb, if he folds say you didn’t want to show your hand.

If we're disciplined enough to tighten up after this hand, I'd think there's more value in showing.