AhTh pre flop.

Yes it's actually a great MWH but right now it's just heads up since we don't know yet if we flat 3 or 4 more people will come along, but even still, it turns it into a fit or fold spot anyway.

My first priority in these spots is to always take the initiative vs a wide opener. If he's wide pre, he shouldn't be 4betting us too much but in some rare cases where there's a dynamic, such as if he's someone you play with often who knows you're 3betting range and might turn his raise into a light 4bet bluff, I would flat in those rare instances but not to play fit or fold post flop, I would get creative on him and may try to bluff my way out post flop if possible.

I'm generally going to 3bet as I'm going to win the pot more often pre and post and I don't really care if I get 4bet because live players are insanely unbalanced and I can literally just fold everything except AA/KK/AKs/65s if they 4bet here.

I'd maybe call if someone in the blinds were particularly bad.

In theory cold calling this hand is fine though most solutions will mix.

I basically turn most of the mix strategy gto hands into pure 3 betting hands at 1/3. I probably 3 bet any suited broadway Ajo+ KQo, 88+ here at minimum. Maybe 77, 66, ATo, K9s or less, even down to K2s, Q9s, random SCs depending on player skill. I think its a question of variance tolerance, but I think the typical 1/3 V is 1) less skilled in 3 bet pots than SRP 2) less skilled when they dont have the initiative 3) way overcalling and under 4 betting pre 4) you are playing in a bigger pot which means their errors are larger.

Ill also say that although this certainly isnt my strategy, after a 3 bet and a call, you can just half pot it with a 100% range on every board at a pretty massive profit because 1/3 fish play insanely fit or fold postflop, they basically call with hands like T9 to try and outflop aces which they put you on. Even 3 betting as wide as me, they seem to just never find the call or raise on the flop with less than a pair or big draw.

THEORY ANSWER: At these stacks/raise sizes, this falls into a large band of hands that basically flip a coin on whether they flat or 3!. There are some nutted hands that 3! almost always and a small range of lesser hands that mostly 3! or fold. When you get deeper, these hands become more frequent flats and you can get away with a more polar 3!ing range.

Solutions of these spots vary to a surprisingly large degree, so it’s clearly more about frequency and balance than about precise hand selection.

This is all assuming you’re OTB. In any other position you IN THEORY basically never cold call in a raked game.

IN PRACTICE: these high-rake, 25 hand/hr games really run around the fish, not playing GTO in a HU reraise war with one competent reg. Icing out any fish left to act TOO much is essentially sparing those fish’s money and loses both you and the reg villain some EV. It can even border on poor form and “bad for the game” in some circles to be boxing recs out of pots on too regular of a basis. So if the players behind you are bad enough, you maybe wanna 3! like 25/75, not muck 22/54s/A2s type hands, etc.

I think some of the above is a little overblown because: 1) fish are more than capable of torching money even when they’re facing a 3! cold, 2) TAG regs are still donating plenty of EV especially facing 3!s OOP, 3) it’s only worth holding the door open for truly bad loose players and not necessarily your typical tight-passive 2/5NL recreational reg, 4) flatting only increases the amount of rake you pay. So it still might be helpful (even as a learning exercise) to test out low-cold-calling strats and then sprinkle back in hands/spots you really miss from there.

By this definition I understand it as if the board gives you top pair, he can't pay you with worse hands. And if you have nut flush, he also won't pay you unless he has the second nuts and if you bet smaller than pot size. Therefore with such players, I'd rather 3 bet now instead of paying the rake.

Also agree that flatting can be good, if the players at the blinds are very bad.

Funny how we basically went in opposite directions in how we adjust theory strats in practice.

I really don’t disagree. You’re avoiding more rake, you’re getting your feet wet against players who are as incompetent in 3bps as you are, and you might as well get your first few punts out of the way while it’s for $500 rather than $5,000 😃

Yeah i mean, i dont necessarily recommend someone like OP just go straight into the deepest waters out the gate, but its sort of a feedback loop where the more you 3 bet light, the more experience you gain, and thus the bigger your edge in 3 bet pots, which leads to even more 3 betting.

Also 3 betting to $60 and then check folding feels like such a punt until you realize its just the same thing as raising $15 and check folding, just at higher stakes. You do it often enough and it starts to feel the same as a normal PFR. Thats why i mentioned variance tolerance. Its higher variance but its ev+.

Think I would mostly lean to a flat here. There's no other dead money to go after. We already have the Button. We're ok if someone calls out of the blinds (especially if they're bad) as hand plays fine multiway. We have to fold our equity if 4bet. There's probably less stressful ways to win money at this table than 3betting the only other guy at the table who might have half a clue.

GcluelessNLnoobG

With a caller in between, I 3!. With just V in the hand so far, I'm calling and hoping one or both blinds come along (this is probably an emotional leak - greed hoping to hit big in a MW pot).

I haven’t memorized preflop charts (as there’s little point, as none of them will cover the random goofiness of LLSNL), but when I’m in a spot that I believe is a “mix”, instead of just using a RNG or whatever (as online players or pros do), I will rely on Game Flow or “live tells”/population reads.

So, CO opens and I have AThh on the Button. I’m pretty sure this is a spot I can either call or 3-bet. How do I decide what to do?

The first thing that seats me is how I have been playing that day. Has V seen me 3-betting a lot? Then I’ll lean towards the “passive” option of just calling. But if I’ve been card-dead? Then I’ll lean towards 3-betting.

Or I’ll guess about the V. Young guy who seems to be raising more than a normal distribution would expect? I’ll 3-bet. Old guy who rarely opens? I’ll call.

As for Game Flow: guy who’s stuck a ton, I’ll 3-bet because I know he’ll call with a lot of bad hands to try to double. OR a guy who looks like he’s just trying to book a win—I’ll 3-bet because I’ll doubt he wants to risk losing a huge pot, he’ll fold all but monsters to my raise.

Or—I don’t place much stake in live tells, so these are least important—if V does something with his body language to make me believe he’s either very strong or very weak, I’ll let that determine which side of the mix I land on.

But that’s just me.

^ +1, best explanation so far.

Also shows why ppl shouldn't be relying on pf charts or GTO in these types of games.