LINE CHECK in BB
1/2 - $300+ effective.
EP (active player) raises to $15
SB calls
H calls J10cc
Flop 10h7c3c
We lead 20
EP folds
SB CR to $120
QUESTIONS...
Should we be leading this flop, at least sometimes? I often don't lead unless I flop big or have big equity. I also want to drive out overcards. Check raises are rare in these games, so that's often not a concern. People often want to call so they can make quads for a high hand, and people are just passive in general.
As played, now what?
We are clearly behind to 77 or 33, but we have a backdoor straight draw and a flush draw.
If we should always be folding turn as played, does that then mean we should almost always be checking the flop so we can realize our equity with less risk (but potentially less reward)?
Thoughts on this kind of spot please and thank you.
6 Replies
Not a good flop to donk in general, and this is not a hand I would do it with. You’ve taken arguably the best hand to play defensively (from a spot with the best relative position) and wrested the wheel from the aggressor to put yourself in a lot of awkward spots. (I’m not just being results oriented, because there are several other needlessly awkward branches, like any one where EP continues.)
There aren’t a ton of good spots to donk (hence the name), but a few include: 1) boards that are really ugly for the aggressor where they’ll just check back a lot (assuming they’re smart enough to notice), 2) an extremely passive PFR where it’s kind of pointless to check to them (rare given that everyone’s heard of cbetting at this point, and even when it does apply that often means you like to check to them because they’ll play very face up), and then there’s some third example that I’ve since forgotten.
Its getting late, I’m going to bed
T73 is not a flop we should ever be donking on. 765? Sure! T33? Go nuts! T73???? No. When we just call a preflop raise from the blinds, we are checking to the raiser 100% of the time, because he’s the only one who can have an overpair.
As played, the PFR was so huge that there’s enough dead money out there that shoving can’t be too bad. It guarantees we realize our equity. Obviously sometimes he’ll have a set and that will suck, but we’ll still win that a third of the time. And sometimes he’ll just have two-pair or Ace-Ten (which we’re flipping with) and hell, sometimes he’ll just have a nut flush draw (or 98cc) and we’ll get it in with the best hand! (And hell—sometimes he’ll just be bluffing and you win right then and there.)
So yeah as played, just shove and pray. But you put yourself in this position by donk-betting on a flop you should not be donk-betting.
You should play 3 bet or fold vs a 7.5x open, JTs could mix fold and 3b
Turbo mega fold preflop.
Also this is not a hand you want to be aggressive with, because your flush draw doesnt want to push out smaller flush draws, and your pair needs less protection due to having the flush draw. Your better off check raising (or betting, not thst i recommend donking) with AcXc and with JT without the flush draw than with the pair+FD.
Oh, I thought we had a BDFD, not the FD. I hate the hand selection less now, but still not good.
Also didn't notice it was a 7.5x open lol. It was already more of a 3! than a flat, and now we're definitely not flatting.
I told you it was too late for me to be posting...
I’m going to amend my post and say I actually am not 100% sure that it’s always wrong to donk bet from the BB in this spot. I would assume it’s always wrong, but, perhaps it’s fine sometimes.
