Donk lead from OMC on monotone board

That line (check,call then donk for a solid amount) is what I call the "omc check raise". They are afraid you'll only call a flop c/r if you have a better hand, but then don't want the turn to check thru.

I don't know if we are ready to bail on the turn but the escalated river bet by a true omc is usually a bad sign. I guess the price isn't bad, so don't kick yourself too much as flopped flushes are rare.

Tbh me and him have played before, he's pretty miserable to play with and seems generally unhappy/grumpy. That's what contributed to my decision calling the turn because I figured when he flat calls pre-flop his range can have Ax like AQ or AK. I partly felt responsible when he donked the turn because of my table image being aggressive (3 bet folded one hand vs a jam not long before this). FWIW I am willing to give him credit to having a range that leads that isn't a flush if he perceives my flop bet to be weak and wants to deny equity from a hand with a diamond in it.

You are attributing too much thinking and ability to adjust to opponents to this player. Like, WAYYYY too much.

Yes you can fold this hand on the turn donk assuming you are confident he is an OMC. Bottom of your turn calling range is a set assuming you are deep enough to be full house mining. Bottom of your river calling range is a medium flush. Calling ranges assume you are confident he is an OMC. If OMC his worst hand is a set but his most likely hand is a flush. And if a set and truly OMC unlikely you see a river bet.

This hand is just a cooler IMO. Of course you’re going to feel bad. You got really unlucky.

Your aggressive image might actually cause him to play more scared and one possible strategy from an OMC is to wait for a big hand before he finally stands up to you.

Calling with 98s PF could be consistent with that (horrible) plan. 98s can make a big hand that will finally give him the chance to play back at you.

But I still find it difficult to fold the river with that pot sizing and knowing ace high flushes aren’t in his range. So the river spot is debatable IMO.

Thank you for this response. I think it really boils down to "what can this person be betting here for value that doesn't have me beat?". And even if I make the call, is it a call I'm going to be proud of myself for making? I literally knew I was beat and still couldn't lay it down, you know? I will say that if we factor in his pessimistic table image he is more likely to take a stand against someone like me who he perceives to be a bully.

He has the 3rd nuts, so not exactly a small flush.

Can probably fold the turn with worse than a set vs. almost everyone. Way more likely to see 87o than A9. Assuming AxKd/AxQd/AxJd isn't x/c 95%+ of the time is hopeful.

River AxJd and KdQx/KxQd all get there.

I mostly don't even bet the flop, although $20 is an okay size.

Man of Means pretty much nailed it by calling this line the OMC check-raise. What would you do if a normal reg or rec-fish check-raised you on the flop?

It's important to recognize how your table image plays into what OMC is doing, and look at the actual rank of the cards on board, to figure out if strong flushes are in his range, or in ours. What we might think of as "somewhat aggro", the OMC probably sees as "total maniac". He probably figures you'd bet bigger with your better flushes on the flop, and if not, then you'd raise his donk on the turn.

He's basically capping your range with this line. We can smooth call when we have the nut flush, and cooler him. We can turn our hand into a bluff, by raising turn, and just give up and check back if he calls our raise and checks to us on the river, if we don't improve to a boat. But most OMC's aren't folding to a turn raise here. So smooth calling when he takes this 1/2 pot sizing is probably the best play.

We can't fold the turn to this sizing, but we're basically just calling hoping to boat up. Top 2 will never be better than a chop when an OMC takes this line. He's never showing up with sets or a worse 2P.

We probably shouldn't try to bluff him off his hand on the river here, but we could if we had a blocker to the nuts. Since we didn't improve, I would just fold.

TL; DR - The way to counter this line is A) cooler him when we have the nut flush, B) turn worse value into a bluff, and hope to improve to better value if our bluff doesn't get through, C) just call turn and fold river if we don't boat up, or D) bluff him out of his shoes with the nut blocker.

This makes the turn call a must for the rare times you can boat up and crush his hopes.

You say this like laughing at the donk bet and showing your hand as you fold won't do this for free.

Nah, even if that turn call is a net loss over time it's just too sweet sucking out on an OMC and dragging their pot away.

After this many limpers I might just lean to an overlimp. Also think there is beginning to be a danger of people limping in large hands when active aggro us is sitting on the Button.

Next time post effective stack size so we know when commitment decisions are coming. In a run-of-the-mill 1/3 NL game with non-deep stacks we are often facing commitment decisions on the flop in this bloated pot.

I can't really comment on flop without knowing stack sizes. The smaller the SPR the more we're simply committed and should likely be betting huge to get chips in ASAP. The larger the SPR the less we should be betting (both in terms of frequency and sizing).

Assuming we're not committed, I can get behind the turn call (might be ahead and he might tell us this by his river action, plus obviously we have outs to win a monster pot if behind). River we're obviously getting good odds, but the question is whether an OMC bets AK/AQ and possibly A9/T9 enough here. Maybe?

Gtoughspot,imoG

Adding supporting details...

Last session, a fairly nitty reg limped in from MP, and I raised AJs from the blinds. I c-bet the flop of AKQrb, and he immediately raised. I called, checked the brick turn, and folded when he barreled, knowing with 100% certainty he had AK or AQ, with AK being much more likely.

I table-changed shortly after. He was nice enough to find me, and tell me that he did in fact limp AK, expecting me to raise from the blinds, because I'd been doing it frequently. The fact is I was doing it with strong hands that are supposed to ISO (like AJs), but he clearly thought I was just being aggro and doing what aggros do.

I am generally one of the more aggro players in any game I play, ISO'ing and 3B'ing at a high rate. But I will often dial back on the aggression whenever it seems like opponents are starting to limp MORE, rather than LESS, or if it seems like opponents are starting to open for a larger size.

Even if I don't spot signs that my opponents have had enough of me pushing the action, I'll sometimes dial it back simply because there's a point at which I'm just raising or 3B'ing too frequently.

I obviously can't have it every time. And my opponents who may have concocted a plan to counter my pre-flop aggression by 3B'ing over my raises or 4B'ing over my 3B's probably haven't considered what they'll do if I just smooth call, and they're the PFR but OOP to me going to the flop.

Usually if an OMC is showing aggression, it's usually the most straight forward reason.

Board is As9c5d and he's raising. He has AK or some king. Same thing here.