How Bad Is This Punt

A234 board. I had 67.

I misread the board and already deleted that post.

Fold flop! You have a gutshot and bdfd on a super-wet 3-wheel-card flop.

I don't mind the flop call if UTG is unlikely to check-raise. This hand has insane implied odds on a 5 because fish will go broke with an A and broker than broke with a 6.

Think the problem with raising this turn is that a set is never folding and it's harder to rep a straight because A5 and 65 were already there on the flop.

flop call is OK turn jam is terrible

i think vilian betting flop vs 2 ppl and continuing on the turnn when the 1 card straight gets there seems like a 5x hand. my default here is to just fold with only $210. he's prob gonna call off a set too (tho i hate his bet on the turn if he has that). my 2 cents, i just started playing again recently so no clue.

Well what did you think the guy who keeps losing post flop is going to do post flop facing aggression lmao.

He might be a thinking player obviously but if you’re able to see that if his stack is constantly going up and down and you see some of his hands at showdown you should be deducing that he isn’t that balanced.

Instead of overcalling vs. this guy you should be overfolding.

I think we should be capable of bluffing this card and this hand is our best bluff so I can't hate it too much, but I want to raise a giant red-flag in your post:

I lovingly say this as a fellow bluff raising junky (see the screenname): floating the flop with an unqualified intention of bluff raising a full third of the deck is going to get you in trouble in general, and going to get you in a WORLD of trouble in 9-handed loose passive games in particular. As a matter of fact, part of why I don't hate the bluff is because it was specifically the A that completes the rainbow, which should be a clue as to where you're going astray otherwise.

ETA: Don't post results and don't allude to them in the post title. You were already gonna get told by the LLSNL blob that raise bluffing is always bad with less than 40 outs, no need to color the feedback further by giving us all the assurance of knowing that this play did in fact torch your stack.

This is a dripping wet flop and not a good one to bluff on. Low stakes players will think more about the strength of their hand than what you are representing. That is why I think the flop call is marginal. You just want to get paid off for your gutshot. I would look to bluff on drier boards, not dynamic boards where you can represent all sorts of things, but opponents likely have good hands / draws.

Results:

In general I agree with you. I profiled this player as one who is not loose but bets for thin value. So in this configuration, the only 5's he has are A5s and 55. He could have Ax, mid pp, betting this flop. He could also have all the sets, but I don't see 56 or any 2p on the flop.

So I ranged him correctly just over estimated his ability to fold to the most obvious draw where my range is completely uncapped and I can have all manner of 5's here.

3B pre.

As played pre, raise flop.

As played on flop, fold turn.

The original raiser was UTG and mostly an unknown with V being UTG+1. Otherwise would have raised the flop.

Yeah, that was what I was explaining. You want to bluff when no one has anything. You don't want to bluff scare cards on wet boards. You expected a 1/2 player to fold aces up?????

It should've worked, but you don't bluff bad players when they've announced they like their hand. They don't come to the casino to fold. Two pair and sets are good hands to them regardless of the board. They've waited a long time for that hand! He probably didn't even see the straight out there. You should've been out on the flop.

Turn shove is bad for the same reason flop call is good. We’re calling $25 to win a $530 pot and have 4 outs to hit it. We can also continue on a club. Shoving any ace as part of our plan is suicidal when we’re heavily weighting V’s range towards Ax. Don’t try to get LLSNL villains to lay down two pair or top pair good kicker, try to get them to pay off with those hands when you have a 5 card hand. We’re getting laid odds to just peel here we don’t need to also try to force bluffs with this combo to be +EV.

It's borderline on the flop. If you hit, you don't always get stacks and their stacks are not that big. As discussed, someone betting on this board likely has something good, so planning to bluff is not a good idea.

think you do much better bluffing in any line where he doesn't bet the turn. either donk the turn, xr the flop, or xf when he bets the turn and intend to bet the river if he x back turn all seem like better options to me. i dont really think v bets the turn with one pair

seems like you just decided to bluff this hand though w/o regard to ranges lol. i think lead flop is also ok

your conclusion should not be you played the hand well and v is an idiot for calling lol, would think turn shove is losing something like 30-50bb

A good player maybe should fold A2, because you have a straight or a bluff, and no one would be crazy enough to bluff there.

I made a nut straight for the nuts on the river and raised a bet. The bettor snap called. Someone asked him how high his flush was. He said he had two pair and didn't see the flush.

In another 1/2 hand the UTG+1 preflop raiser kept betting a top set of jacks. The BB called down with 52s for a flush draw. The river made put a 3-flush out, UTG+1 bet 100 for close to pot and the BB checkraised allin for 250 more and was snap called. I was shocked at how both players played it. I would have bet/folded the river as the BB if someone forced me to call a raise with 52s.

I play much more aggressively in tournaments, preflop and postflop, where people will fold to small bets, etc. In games like this you mostly need to go for value.

There are a ton of hands where if we were in villain's shoes we should have folded vs an unknown player. But villain calls us anyways, and maybe we shouldn't have bluffed. People underbluff. People call to wide. So sometimes we shouldn't bluff even when we shouldn't call if we were in villain's shoes.

Here I think I would just be done with the hand. You call flop to steal it if villain shows weakness on later streets. Villain didn't show weakness, so we should give up.

I don't know if we should ever bluff here, but I don't like the hand selection. We don't block enough value and don't have enough equity. It's high in our range, but maybe a hand like A6s. Or 64s, 63s if those are in your range.

But hey, there are just some spots where we should never bluff. Even if that means you are only raising straights on the turn. It is what it is. You have to play the players. And sometimes the players are droolers.

i dont really get the focus on what a good player should do. a good player would take a different action at every single point in the hand with his holdings.

also horribly misread the hand the first time and thought we were bb, is less spew than i initially thought

The number of HHs I misread in this forum is embarrassing. Live HH converter when?

With no data to support it, wheel boards always seem bad to bluff to me. You can valuetown the **** out of someone, but hard to bluff them IMO.

Exactly, this is a horrible board to bluff on. The wheel card flop, gives AJ+ a straight draw and good overcards. Any pp is an overpair or set, sometimes an overpair with a straight draw. Axs is a straight draw and pair. Low suited connectors can be 2 pair or a pair and straight draw.