4/8 turn made straight but also FD too passive?

Way too little action. I’m conflicted about donking the turn versus check raising, but your hand is way too strong to play this way.

at 4/8 i would donk the turn and call down a raise. obv fold if anyone 3bets.

Thanks for confirming. Too passive I have to get over this.

I disagree strongly here. I think hero isn't good more than 50% of the time on the turn, and many times he will get drawn out on the river. Check-raising several people here would be insane. Donking is only good if you know you can fold to a raise. Otherwise just check-call and call a non-club river. When a different player bets the river here I just barely want to call and against some players I would fold.

This was more my original thought. Conflicting views from great players, must be a good spot to post.

Would love for some more to share their thoughts.

Is a flop c/r spewy?

As you said, maybe if it was a rainbow flop, but I wouldn't with two of a suit.

I don’t agree that hero is behind 50% of the time on the turn, and I certainly don’t think we can conclude that before there’s any turn action. I tend to agree that c/r is too much action given our hand strength, but it’s a disaster to let this turn get checked through. I think donk/call and call non-club, non-board-pairing rivers had to be the play at a 4/8 game.

With 6 players seeing the flop and then 5 calling to see the turn, someone will have the flush draw at least half the time in my experience.

i actually thought about it some more and i think rob is probably correct in his advice to c/c turn/river. seems too passive but gets you to showdown and your equity on this turn is not that great.

fwiw my hand was good, River bettor declared two pair and showed, other player mucked what I assume was top pair gk.

Once hero checks the turn and the same guy who bet the flop bets the turn, and nobody else likes their hand enough to raise, the hero HAS to check-raise. Not check-raising in this spot getting potentially 3-1 on our money--when it's probably super easy to fold to a 3bet cuz it's 4-8--is insanely bad. At the end of the day it's not about how we feel about our hand. It's about making money man.

Given the action you played the river well. You have far from the nuts and going for the overcall nets the same as raising WITHOUT the risk of getting 3bet.

when it's probably super easy to fold to a 3bet cuz it's 4-8--

LOL...and once again we have the bet/fold to 3 bet line. How many pots can I steal for an $8 investment LMAO!!!!

I'm assuming this is live poker 4-8. Yes a 3bet in this spot will be so nutted we can fold knowing the odds of our hand being best will be so low we will not have a profitable call down unless some poker god comes down and puts $1 million in the pot.

i would donk turn and bet call a non club river. if raised on turn i call and check call river. check fold multiway on river club. check soul read hu on river club, folding if the story makes sense.

given preflop action, i would play that way at any stake.

i really think this depends on the game. there are plenty of tight passive OMC filled games where this turn never gets bet by anything worse than a set or maybe even a flush vs a really nitty OMC. although i suppose CR is good if you can fold to a 3b.

No, it never "depends on the game". Getting 3-1 with this strong of a hand you have to raise in this spot. And honestly, this is a super easy fold to a 3bet. There are some spots in poker where it doesn't matter what the pot size is--excluding really crazy scenarios--a fold is still the most profitable play.

Now if you have a really strong read that the flop-turn bettor is not betting the turn without a flush, ok then, that changes things. There can always be player reads that dramatically change the math forcing us to change course. That's what makes poker fun. But this is never game dependent. Once the hero checks the turn, check-raising getting 3-1 on our money is always the best play here in ANY game. Only a super strong player read on the flop-turn bettor can change things.

Sure, if it's typical for a player to bet one pair into several people on this turn. That's not my experience though. Even before any turn action I think it's very likely someone has a flush.

Momentum is a thing in poker. We're not talking about a new bettor on a flush turn. When the same guy that bets the flop then bets this turn he does not have to be nutted. The other two people who just called on the turn are obviously unlikely to have a flush given that they didn't raise. Put this all together + hero is getting super juicy 3-1 odds on a check-raise meaning hero does not have to be best here that often to be printing money = fist pump-thank god I'm alive-raise.

this is something i learned the hard way

midstakes game.

I open KK UTG, loose passive calls, nitty old guy 3bets, i cap, all call

flop AQQ rainbow, i check, passive checks, nitty guy bets, i call, passive calls

turn brick, i check, passive checks, nitty guy bets, i fold not only worried about the nit but the passive guy behind. passive calls

river brick, check/check, nitty old guy wins with TT. i couldnt believe he bet he turn.

i think the only 2 plays to consider on the turn are check raise* and bet. if you cant raise this turn bet, you should really be donk betting the turn. i noted a 6 way limped pot and decided the game is too passive to check raise the turn, hence my donk turn recommendation. i need a read like "game texture is loose passive pre and loose aggressive for 1 or 2 bets postflop." in order to go for turn check raise given the passive preflop and flop action.

*but dont check 3+ bet; vs a raise i showdown as cheap as position, fold river club.

i dislike the supposed raise 4(and maybe 5) handed. winning unimproved is not likely given the nature of this passive game. you need to hit to win the vast majority of the time, and your position is the worst at the table for extracting value. the strongest flopped hand and the best draw typically chop up the chips contributed by the rest of the hands involved on the flop, but you dont have the best draw all the time on that board. the better draws actually have you thoroughly dominated.

everything about this table and hand makes me want to just keep it very simple. check without a straight, bet and reevaluate with a straight. if i make a pair i check and hope to win a checkdown battle. maybe call 1 river bet if the action seems favorable.

BOB!!!!! How the heck are you? Been awhile since I've seen you in this forum.