Winstar $4/$8 big blind special

I thought about creating a separate thread for this second hand, but I think there's a similar theme here so it might actually be worth comparing/contrasting the two situations.

5 limpers, sb completes, I'm in the BB with AKo and I raise. Everybody calls.

7 players, 14sb, I'm sorry I don't remember the flop but it was king-high, monotone and raggedy.

Mr. serial-check-in-the-dark checks in the dark, of course I bet out, 3 callers, he check-raises. I have SEEN this villain raise and check-raise top pair top kicker several times. I don't think I've ever seen him checkraise worse than TPTK. Nevertheless, I'm not folding TPTK for one bet, and raising seems smarter than just flatting.

The point, though, is I 3-bet in the first hand wanting everyone to call, and I 3-bet in the SECOND hand hoping to blast people out of the pot. For some reason it's not "sitting right with me" that I made the same action hoping for 2 different results.

Sorry if the post wasn't clear.

I think your post is very clear.

You have the second nuts in the first hand so you want to build a big pot. If the SB has an oddly played 78 so be it.

In the second hand you have a vulnerable TPTK so three betting makes perfect sense.

Interesting 3 bet spots, see your point but we don't 3 bet in vacuums.

Don't raise the river in the first hand. The donk is very unusual and strikes me as possibly coming from the type of player who worried he would get drawn out on so didn't re-raise the nuts on the turn, but now that it's still the nuts on the river he wants to make sure it doesn't get checked through.

Second hand I don't like unless you have the Ace of the suit on the board (for the nut flush draw). If not, with 7 players seeing a monotone flop, it's going to take a miracle to win this pot with one pair, and no one is going to fold a big one-card flush draw regardless of the betting. Even a crazy SB is very unlikely to be check-raising 4 players with just TPTK unless he has the Ace of the suit. You don't really want to build a big pot here, but you also don't want to push out someone who has a medium one-card draw and is drawing dead because someone else has a bigger one. Depending on the other players I may just call down (unless a flush card comes), or I might just call the flop and then raise a non-flush card if/when the SB bets the turn, when my equity is higher.

I just now noticed I made a mistake when I posted the second hand. The flop was not monotone and raggedy, it was rainbow and raggedy. Sorry about that.

On a monotone flop, 3-betting hoping to blast people out of the pot would have made no sense because nobody's folding a diamond no matter how many bets I put in. Given the fact that I'm way out of position and most likely tied or behind the SB, I probably just call and re-evaluate on the turn. But I'm playing passively the rest of the hand.

On a RAINBOW flop, I think 3-betting is better than flatting (and folding is absurd). If I'm behind to a set he can have my money. If I'm behind to two pair I actually have significantly more than just 5 outs because there are combinations of paired boards that could win the hand for me. Investing ONE extra small bet to try to get middle or bottom pair (or baby pocket pairs for that matter) to fold and buy me more outs makes sense. In the games I play, NOBODY folds any piece of the board on the flop for one bet, but there's a decent chance they fold second pair or worse for TWO bets, especially on a raggedy board. And, of course, though unlikely it's not completely impossible that I'm ahead of the raiser, in which case if I'm going to try to win a hand with one pair I want as few villains drawing out on me as possible.