Naked backdoor draws
I want to make sure I'm not folding too much when I flop backdoor draws and not much else.
3 limps, I'm on the button with JTs and I raise, both blinds and all limpers call, flop is A65r giving me a BDFD. SB donks, 2 callers. If my count is correct I'm getting 15 to 1. I have the BDFD and absolutely nothing else, so I have 1.5 outs. This feels like a call since I'm closing the action and can safely fold on the turn if I don't improve. If I weren't closing the action (i.e. if CO had donked instead of SB) I'd have be more careful and would probably fold.
What if the flop was A95r instead? Now I have a zero-gap backdoor straight draw too, which is worth 1.5 outs, so I have 3 outs. I'm not sure I play this one much different even though I technically have double the outs. I'm still going to call closing the action but still going to be more careful if there are villains between me and the bettor.
Technically in both examples I also have a two-gap BDSD (hoping to catch a running K and Q) - SSHE says that's worth about half an out. Do I even bother COUNTING that among my outs?
One last example: 3 limps, I'm in the SB with Q3s and I complete, BB checks, flop comes J74r giving me a BDFD and not much else. I check, checks to the BTN who bets. That feels like a CLEAR fold in that tiny pot with villains to act after me. Frankly, even if I check and BB bets so I'm closing the action, the pot is still so small that it's still a clear fold even though I'm closing the action. Correct?
I'll stop there for now.
4 Replies
While we're on the subject of folding too much on the flop, another area where I want to make sure I'm not folding too much is when I play a small to medium pocket pair before the flop and then don't flop a set or an overpair.
UTG raises, 2 coldcallers, SB coldcalls, I have 33 in the BB and I call. Flop comes something sick like AT7r. Checks to UTG who c-bets. 2 callers. I'm getting 13 to 1 closing the action. That still feels like an easy fold drawing to 2 outs.
UTG raises, 2 coldcallers, SB coldcalls, I have 99 in the BB and I call. Flop comes J73r. Checks to UTG who c-bets. 2 callers. I'm getting 13 to 1 closing the action. Unless I have a rock-solid read that UTG never c-bets without at least top pair I could see making a call here. He could easily be c-betting overcards. Obviously one of the callers could have a jack but if I have a read that they'll call on the flop with just about any two cards I could still have the best hand here. A raise would be silly. And I can probably safely fold to a bet on the turn if I don't pick up a draw or a set.
While we're on the subject of folding too much on the flop, another area where I want to make sure I'm not folding too much is when I play a small to medium pocket pair before the flop and then don't flop a set or an overpair.
UTG raises, 2 coldcallers, SB coldcalls, I have 33 in the BB and I call. Flop comes something sick like AT7r. Checks to UTG who c-bets. 2 callers. I'm getting 13 to 1 closing the action. That still feels like an easy fold drawing to 2 outs.
UTG raises, 2 coldcallers, SB
33 on an AT7r flop is an easy fold. You could be drawing virtually dead and you can't back into a winner without hitting a set.
99 on a J73r flop is closer to a raise than a fold, though I think calling is superior to both. You are much more likely to have the best hand, and your hand is going to be good much more often when you do improve. I think I play in different games than you do but I would show down most of the time with 99 on this texture, particularly if people start thinning out on the turn.
I want to make sure I'm not folding too much when I flop backdoor draws and not much else.
3 limps, I'm on the button with JTs and I raise, both blinds and all limpers call, flop is A65r giving me a BDFD. SB donks, 2 callers. If my count is correct I'm getting 15 to 1. I have the BDFD and absolutely nothing else, so I have 1.5 outs. This feels like a call since I'm closing the action and can safely fold on the turn if I don't improve. If I weren't closing the action (i.e. if CO had donked in
I fold #1 and #3 and call #2 as a default. Leaving aside the fact that you have many more outs with a zero gap BDSD, it's a lot easier to play on the turn when you have a 4-liner than a hand where you need to hit a gutshot.
in a multiway raised pot, a good rule of thumb is that if you are closing the action you should call one small bet with any combo backdoor draw. its going to feel fishy and you might question what differentiates you from fish when you do this but its correct.
