exploitative folds low stakes

It's already going to be tough to win at 4/8 with the typical rakes charged these days; if you don't make some exploitative folds you're never going to be able to win.

If someone simply always seems to have it when they bet, feel free to fold most of the time when all you can beat is a bluff. But keep watching to see if they always have it when in hands against other players. It's unlikely that many 4/8 players are going to start bluffing you, and only you, because you start folding more often.

I hate the practice of people trying to get other people to show, etc., because it slows down the game so much, but if it's actually working for you then I wouldn't blame you for doing it.

heads up and 3 handed on the river are the spots to pick off bluffs without reads; if i can beat a reasonable value hand 2 or 3 handed on the river, im calling 100%, as the inclusion of just a few bluffs in addition to worse value hands will almost always make calling profitable.

(combos u beat/total combos) = your river equity.

compare your river equity to your %investment.

(call/total pot after your call) = your investment expressed as a percentage of the pot.

if river equity is higher, calling is profitable.

a player behind you when youre not closing the action causes you to fold more marginal bluffcatchers, particularly when that player is more likely to raise.

4+ handed, i need a specific "dumb multiway bluffs" read on the bettor to call with hands that can only beat a bluff. and sometimes its best to fold even if u can beat a few value combos. do the math.

practicing river combo math away from the table will serve you well in terms of both range estimation and pot odds estimation.

flop is cheap, the hands to fold are under pocket pairs and no pair no draw. sometimes we fold a gutshot in a small pot, but basically any decent draw can call the flop, including 2 pair/trips draws, and 2 overcard hands(especially with backdoor flush and straight strength).

the turn isnt cheap, and someone usually has a range that has been strengthened by flop action. calling pure bluffcatchers with poor redraws, intending to call all rivers without good reads is not advised(except heads up, which is more complicated). its different, or better when you get to the river by some way other than "i call turn without a read hoping hes bluffing." being able to beat value hands is crucial when calling the river vs underbluffers. i don't play full ring anymore but i doubt 4/8 has become much more aggressive in the last 10 yr. when youre in an aggressive game that needs adjustment, you'll probably know it. do the math now and youll be better prepared for 5/T and 10/20.

Thanks rob, this is exactly my feeling on both points . I am scraping out a small profit now(almost 1 BB/hr) and trying to squeeze out a few more bucks/hour and I figure this is the next logical step.

If I can make 2 good read based folds per session my WR will be inline with about as good as I think you can expect in a 4/8 game(~1 BB/hr) unless you are an absolute wizard, which I am not.

I plan to finally make the longer drive to the casino with bigger games after the first of the year sometime and step up to 8/16. I just hate the drive. Me and a couple Regs are trying to get a 6/12 8/16 going at my local but no luck so far.

Thanks for this, I think it applies to harder games than my 4/8 but I get starting to practice now will only help later on. As you noted 4/8 is still pretty passive.

It's unlikely that many 4/8 players are going to start bluffing you, and only you, because you start folding more often.

No it's not. LMAO! Of course there are people at a 4/8 table who will start bluffing only you if you start folding too much. (at least in so cal, and especially @ the Gardens) Hell I'm one of them. Yes there will be terrible players playing 4/8, but then there will be those like me...preying on these people and ready to prey on you! For the most part you don't have to worry about higher level things at a 4/8, until you sit at the wrong table lol. Yes, there are tough tables at 4/8 sometimes.

If your opponents are underbluffing, you can just fold all your bluffcatchers. Even if they try to "exploit you back" by bluffing more, they might very well still be underbluffing so it doesn't really matter. But for a lot of players, there will be certain spots they habitually underbluff and others they habitually overbluff. So, it's often situational as well as player specific. As a simple example, getting check-raised on big-bet streets is in my experience a way underbluffed spot by even good players. Whereas even tight and non-bluffy players might be triple barreling a lot.

A couple of hands I played this weekend reminded me of this thread. Typical 4-8 game.

Hero raises AKo pre, many callers.

Flop KT4, checked to hero who bets. OMC to my immediate left raises. Have played with him many times, raises about once every 3 hours always with the goods. One caller, others fold back to hero who calls.

Turn 7, Hero checks, OMC bets immediately. Fold, Hero folds.

Hero opens 99 in MP, different villain to hero's immediate left 3 bets for the first time. He will raise on occasion but overall not an aggressive player. All fold back to hero who calls.

Flop 764. Hero checks, villain bets, hero calls.

Turn 2. Hero checks, villain bets, hero??

Obviously if hero calls the turn he's calling the river. IMO, hero can never fold this flop because of the backdoor straight. I put villain's range at either QQ+ or KK+ and AKs.

Neither of those hands are bluffcatchers. Folding in either spot is a massive deviation and you had better be very confident in your reads.

i agree those arent bluffcatchers(valuecatchers imo), as the possibility of being ahead of a value hand is too high(kqs hand 1, 88 hand 2). if your read is that good and they never have worse value hands, never have a bluff nor a draw, then i think fold both ak and 99 is good. however, it takes a very confident read.

You better have a really good read to fold both hands. Villain in first hand can easily have the same hand as you. Tight players do get out of line or overplay their hand on occasion. How do you know villain in second hand doesn’t have AK?

What does OMC stand for?

OMC stands for Old Man Coffee. Part of his game is that he never raises without the virtual nuts. And that's what this thread is about, exploiting low stakes players like this by making plays that would be terrible without a read or at higher stakes.

Hand 1 was simple, OMC either has KT or a set, there is zero doubt. He is that predictable. He showed KT.

Hand 2 wasn't so simple as villain could have had AKs but I was very confident he did not. Against OMC I lay down 99 in a heartbeat, especially in a HU pot. However with the chance he had AKs I elected to call down and shown AA.

In hand 1 I saved 2 big bets, make just a few of these reads against 100% predictable players a session and suddenly your win rate jumps. But as everybody has said, you've got to be absolutely positive in your reads. Every session I see players call down these predictable players with good one pair hands only to be shown the goods each and every time.

Yes! This is what I'm talking about. 95% of people at 4/8 tables are not worried about: balance, position, ranges, etc etc. They just want to see some flops and have some fun. HIGHLY exploitable.