KK facing aggression

You’re getting like 15 to 1 immediate or 8 or so to 1 to call down. You just have to take your medicine here

Flop play is fine! I would call down from here, he's repping a strong hand, make him prove it.

call down

I actually don't think the 3bet is as clear cut as it initially seems, though I don't think it can be a huge mistake and there is a real benefit to getting the rest of the field out in a pot of this size. You just have to call down and see what he has. I wouldn't raise any card other than a K and would probably check back the river if checked to.

Its hard to believe that the guy wouldn't raise AQ preflop, but would check raise and Cap with it on flop? But its the ONLY hand ....that we are ahead of.....that makes sense? I Dont feel mubsy saying I smell a SET! Yea I guess you have to call down...

OK, let's use 8 to 1 to call down. This means if I'm not 90+% sure V has a set I'm calling down. But what if I'm literally 98% sure he's got a set?

Let me interject another hand from later in that session that I feel has relevance to this discussion. Different V's but same principles.

I raise AJhh pre and get 6 callers!

Flop Jd 6c 2d. I bet and all call. (yes, this is a good game)

Turn 4s. I bet, 4 callers, 2 folds.

River 5d. Maybe the worst card in the deck. I check, V1 to my left who plays almost everything bets. V2 calls, 2 folds back to me. 140 in the pot before rake and drop and it's costing me only another 8. Only have to be good here 5-6% of the time. I lose here an awful lot but know it's the right play. Easy call.

In the 2nd hand I know/feel my odds of winning the hand are better than the pot odds being laid. But in the first hand I know/feel my odds of winning the hand are less than the pot odds being laid.

If this type of game is about exploiting players, does it not make sense when they play their cards face up to both value bet relentlessly but also lay it down the 0.1% of the time they show strength?

And of course with no reads I'm calling down KK every time.

I just find talking about some of these unusual plays interesting in an extremely loose passive game where players are incredibly exploitable.

If you’re 98% sure they have a set, then fold. But don’t post it here because we’ll not be able to help you on that, it’s a hyper-specific read.

Edit: Actually you should call turn because you have implied odds, idk it’s a math thing.

Yeah just good turn if he had a set, easy game. But on this particular board, he seen nits show up with AQ

Well, was curious to see if anybody thought a fold wasn’t batcrap crazy.

But yeah, the best way to play this is to bink the turn and print.

No I mean you should call turn and fold river if you are 100% sure they have a set

I think this example is closer to an easy fold than an easy call. You had 5 people hanging around until the river. Now two people show interest on a perceptually scary river one of which bet out into the field. If the guy betting is a reasonable player, meaning he is not trying to bluff 5 other players, you can fold. If he is not to be trusted you should call. Players at these limits tend not to go for thin value so I'm heavily discounting the possibility he has a worse J.

vs a river bet and call you are good here maybe 0.5% of the time, or even less. i think it might be mathematically impossible for 4 people who are playing logically (i.e not calling the turn with absolutely nothing) to call you on the turn for someone not to have you beat on this river.

Yes we are operating in the field of using averages and rational play, but ntnBO is relying on soul reads that are essentially unfalsifiable. If he is able to soul read his opponent with a high degree of accuracy he can of course reasonably deviate from normal plays. It’s just not going to be a very interesting discussion since the logic is going to be a “just so” story.

See, I'm not just looking at this as a soul read, otherwise I wouldn't have posted the hand. Using your language above I'm looking at this as using averages and rational play against the typical level 0 4/8 player. I would have used the same logic against 3-4 others currently at this table.

Just trying to get a feel of opinions of some decisions that should never be contemplated in probably any game bigger than this. I see I'm definitely in the minority which was expected.

Given the action. What range of hands are we putting the villian on when 9 comes on turn? Also, part of the profitability of 4/8 comes from playing people WHO you can 99.9% put them on certain hands.