When the table gets crazy-too loose?

Better players than me will probably have better ideas, but here is how I would look at it:

What I think you really want to avoid is putting 4 bets into the pot while you're behind, if not WAY behind.

Take a hand like 76s for example. You will flop absolutely NOTHING about 70% of the time and have to give up. The other 30% you'll be correct to chase gutshots, pair-and-draw combos and the like, but being able to play correctly easily after the flop seldom compensates for all the money you put in behind BEFORE the flop. You will have a clear equity ADVANTAGE on the flop, what, 2% of the time at most? I mean if you don't flop 2 pair or better or maybe an OESFD are you EVER in a significant equity advantage?

I haven't done the math, but with a suited ace or suited king you have the "advantage" that if you flop a flush draw it's a higher flush draw obviously, but look at all the disadvantages you have: It's harder to flop a gutshot or OESD, and if you flop top pair it's really hard to fold even though you're probably dominated. Still, you're only flopping a significant equity advantage maybe 2% of the time.

Contrast that with a hand like JJ. You will flop a set or 3 undercards 45% of the time. When you don't have a significant equity advantage in that situation it's just very bad luck.

AK will flop overcards most of the time, but they'll flop TPTK about 31% of the time too, and again, if you don't have a big equity advantage with TPTK it's just bad luck.

Also, with JJ and AK, before the flop you're likely to be ahead, and you're likely putting in 4 bets ahead, and you're reasonably likely to STILL be ahead after the flop. With 76s or A5s you're probably putting 4 bets in before the flop against 88 or 96o or A7o - you're putting in all that money while you're CRUSHED and PRAYING for a "favorable" situation after the flop that's not going to come more than 30% of the time at the most and will most likely not be a BIG equity advantage.

In short, when you KNOW people are going to put in 4 bets before the flop, I think you need to stick to hands that have a strong chance of having an equity advantage before the flop AND on the flop.

First two are fine. I'm not sure about KJo. I can make arguments for all three actions pre. Also a bit worried that buddies will share info once they look at their hands and "whipsaw" players into or out of pots. Doubt it's a good way to cheat but I'd still be wary of it. Be aware of when they do look.

To be clear only one of the drinking buddies was playing blind, the other playing blind guy was a LAggy gambly type, not his buddy.

So you would suggest something like ATs+, 99+, AJo+? Now I am recalling seeing something like that in one of the HE books from 2+2...let me dig it out....ok HEFAP suggest even tighter, AJs+, TT+, AKo..and thats just to not fall asleep waiting for hands.

That first hand tho...40+ BB....damn.

Fasten your seat belt. You’re going to have big swings.

Big pocket pairs are going to get cracked more. AKo and unsuited broadways go down in value. Play hands that can flop big, ie suited Aces, suited connectors, pocket pairs etc. KJo is a POS in this type of game.

Games like this can be very frustrating. If you’re prone to tilting or are impatient you might be better off leaving.

You’re oftentimes not getting the correct price to play a hand BTF but the implied odds are huge.

tl;dr - Premium hands usually have an equity advantage both before *and* on the flop, so playing those hands is kind of a no-brainer. For speculative hands, it's actually possible to CACLULATE the implied odds you need to make calling break-even or better.

For deciding which preemies to play due to expecting to have an equity advantage with them, buy Flopzilla , give yourself a starting hand, give one or more villains one or more ranges and see how much equity you have against that range. Then look at your starting hand's probabilities of flopping top pair, an overpair, pair below top pair, pair and gutshot, pair and flush draw etc. Then put in a specific flop and see how much equities change based on the flop, i.e. if you flop top pair, an overpair, a pair below top pair, pair and a flushdraw, pair and a gutshot etc. The more you are doing this and the other people at the table aren't, the more of an advantage you have - simple as that.

Here is how to think about implied odds in as few words as I was able to put it:

Suppose you have a chance to play 33 before the flop for one bet.
88% of the time you're going to miss your set and fold.
12% of the time you're going to flop a set. Let's say 70% of the time the set holds up and 30% of the time it doesn't. So 3.6% of the time you put in 5 more bets after the flop before you realize you got sucked out on.
How big do the pots need to be for setmining with 1 bet pre to be profitable?

88% * 1 + 3.6% * 6 = 8.4% * p <==I THINK this is correct. 88% of the time you lose 1 small bet. 3.6% of the time you lose 6 small bets. 8.4% of the time you win a pot with p small bets in it, and we want to know how big p needs to be to break even.

If my math is right, we need to be confident that we're going to win 13 small bets on average when we flop a set and it holds up for calling with a baby pocket pair for 1 bet to break even.

Now look at what happens if we have to call FOUR small bets with our baby pocket pair:
88% * 4 + 3.6% * 6 = 8.4% * p <==if my math is right, we need to win a 44 small bet pot every time we flop a set for calling a capped situation pre to be profitable.

You can repeat this exercise for a hand like A6s.
11% of the time you're going to flop a flush draw. 35% of that 11% of the time you're make your flush, it's going to hold up and you're going to win a big pot. 65% of that 11% of the time you're going to lose a few more small bets chasing your flush.
16% of the time you're going to flop top pair and probably lose a few more bets to whoever has an ace with a better kicker.
73% of the time you're probably going to check and fold.

Yes, I'm oversimplifying, I mean I'm leaving out things like flopping two pair or a gutshot or an OESD, but I'm trying to keep it simple while illustrating how to THINK about just how big the implied odds need to be in these kinds of games.

I'll stop there.

How could you be playing too loose? Ur calling with suited aces and KJ against loose maniacs who are raising and capping blind?

If you’re going to play super fit or fold postflop, then you should fold things like KJo or 44 or 76s. But if you’re appropriately rolled and understand that you shouldn’t fold for 1-2 bets in a bloated pot when you flop 3rd pair and a couple of backdoor draws, I would just strap in and prepare for a wild (but ultimately profitable) ride. Remember that you’re going to suck out on other people’s hands from time to time and that much of your profit will come from those situations rather than having premium hands hold up.