Have starting hands changed at all due to solvers?
Title says it.
24 Replies
Changed from what? Everyone used to be guessing, now some people are guessing less (but still have to guess in weird spots)
Changed from say the Sklansky/Malmuth recommendations.
yes
Do go on.
Buy some coaching from him. I'm sure it's good value.
If you don't want to discuss it, then stop cluttering the thread with inanities.
Isn’t it self explanatory? If ranges have been solved by the machine, why wouldn’t you use those instead of something else? And you can always deviate slightly based on opponent
If you don't play as good as the solver does, or if your opponents are significantly different than the simulated ones, you wouldn't want to open the same hands as it does.
It could still be useful to know what it thinks though.
^^^
You mean like this chart: https://pokerstrategy.com/download/conte...
lol yes everyone should use this chart.
I think the WITHG is better than this chart tbh
^^^
You mean like this chart: https://pokerstrategy.com/download/conte...
I thought you asked that this thread not be filled with "inanities." DD answered your question in the first few posts.
Great thread everyone
Just get the solverplus app and open based on their rfi based on stack sizes with some deviations for tighter tables etc.
Don't even have to pay for the app. I feel like if people just stuck to getting RFI close to perfect, they would do much better in live mtts. Also think most players need to do a better job with finding weaker hands to 3!/ fold in spots like button vs sb or cu vs sb/bb.
In live game, folks tend to not 3! Enough of the weaker hands in spots where they can easily fold to a 4! B
This forum is about limit holdem, not NL.
This brings up an interesting question. Does it make more sense to use the old fashioned method of seeing which hands are profitable from which positions over a large sample of online hands to determine your base strategy against unknowns or does it make more sense to use solver ranges?
Many considerations weigh into each poker decision so I think it is worthwhile to become aware of both strategies, and then to understand why they are different. If the solver is up against a solver, there is no post-flop skill differential while you will have either a postflop skill advantage or disadvantage against the online player pool against which your samples are drawn, which will impact which starting hands are profitable. You also need to account for any rake and/or tips that might be removed from pots you win, which your solver might not consider.
Then you sit down in a live game in a strange city against a bunch of unknowns and you think I'd better deviate from both strategies early so they don't immediately peg me as someone familiar with either online hand databases or solvers.
Why is it that in limit forums getting answers to questions is like pulling teethe? It wasn't always this way. Back in the good old days someone would ask a question and he would get 20-30 well thought out responses from very good players. Perhaps because limit is becoming less and less popular and information is less and less available it's considered more valuable. In No Limit threads people are happy to provide their expertise including poker coaches. In limit forums people are basically asked "How dare you ask that question"? "Pay for coaching if you want to know". I think paying for Limit coaching right now would be a very bad investment given the state of the game. I think the OP's question is a good one and deserving of some conversation. I've been playing NL and participating in the NL threads for about a year. These guy's are way more helpful and way less snooty than limit players.
^ Do you really think that 20-30 players here could have answered this question? I'm a LHE pro, and I have never used a solver. My guess as to the answer would be "not at all, because no one in my games has ever used a solver", but that wouldn't be a very helpful answer either. This was not a question that many people could answer.
^ Do you really think that 20-30 players here could have answered this question? I'm a LHE pro, and I have never used a solver. My guess as to the answer would be "not at all, because no one in my games has ever used a solver", but that wouldn't be a very helpful answer either. This was not a question that many people could answer.
.
Do you really think that's what I was saying?
Why is it that in limit forums getting answers to questions is like pulling teethe? It wasn't always this way. Back in the good old days someone would ask a question and he would get 20-30 well thought out responses from very good players. Perhaps because limit is becoming less and less popular and information is less and less available it's considered more valuable. In No Limit threads people are happy to provide their expertise including poker coaches. In limit forums people are basically ask
Back in the day, there was a much bigger player pool and there was an us against the world mentality on 2p2 because no matter how much info you shared here, there were thousands of players who would never read it. Now, there’s just a much greater likelihood that you’re playing against people that post in or lurk these forums.
More importantly, there’s a big difference between genuine discussion of unsolved post-flop spots that are more about refining thought process or debating multiple legitimate options than they are about just giving someone an “answer” to a basic question.
Finally, in LHE, preflop is so important relative to NL that just publicly giving people preflop answers is giving away pretty valuable information. In NL, there’s just no putting the GTO Wizard genie back in the bottle.
If a frequent poster in these forums wanted to know what solved ranges in a certain spot (say BU 3b vs CO open) looked like, I’d probably be more than happy to discuss and debate privately. But there’s just no real reason to publicly broadcast that information.
People interested in learning a solver's strategy should use that solver to do so. This way, they can answer their own questions rather than relying on information provided by others who may not know how to use the software, may have made mistakes in extrapolating conclusions from results, or may intentionally mislead people for the sake of frustration, humor, malice, or an intention to profit from their mistakes.
In general, people should provide for themselves where possible rather than relying on the unpaid labor of others. Asking questions is fair but no one is obligated to answer.
