Three drunk maniacs!!
This is a very juiced up game due to the maniacs. I'd say 85% of the time it's a capped pot going to the flop with at least 5 players. The other 15% of the time there are only two bets going in. There is never 3 bets going in because somebody will cap. I am currently in seat 8 and the maniacs are in seats 2,3, 4. Seat 2 is the lead maniac and will open raise and cap if given the chance 100%. Seat 3 is on fire and winning everything. He recently won a pot with Q high Q8o which he 3b pre and barrelled off. Seat 4 sometimes just comes along for the ride rather than creating action when he is running bad. If he is running well he can go nuts on all streets. Post flop we are probably seeing 3-4 people make it to the river. It can get nutty sometimes and sometimes it's just one bet each street.
I'm curious what adjustments you guy's are making in such a game. I remember a long time ago it was suggested to just play premium hands like big pocket pairs and AK like hands. I would think we are giving up too much playing this tight against such loose ranges.
One adjustment I made was to never raise pre flop simply because I didn't have to. If I limped there would be a raise and usually it would get capped back to me. When I did raise or re raise the maniacs took notice because relative to them I was a nit. Also, no reason to give the other decent players at the game information. The question I have is if there has been a raise in front of me how low should I go with calling certain hands knowing it's gonna get capped. If it's gonna be me and the maniacs doing battle post flop do I just get in there with the KJo and embrace the variance? I would think playing pocket pairs and Ace suited hands are plays because of their nut making potential. How low do we go with the suited connectors? I'm thinking not too low given the price we will have to pay to hit a draw and the fact that we won't be able to bluff anyone out of the pot. BTW...If there was a situation where I could get a good player out of the hand I would raise or re raise.
I later moved to seat 4 with two maniacs to my right and one to my left. I kind of think having the maniacs to my left might be better since I can get a read on what the good players do and often get isolated with just the maniacs.
I would like to hear your thoughts on games like this. I ran like dirt for 8 hours. My best pocket pair was JJ's. I won a massive pot with 55's that turned a full house and saved the day for me.
This sounds like a fun game. The kind where I can dust off at least 5 racks!
In these wild type spots the value of high implied odd hands goes up. For example, normally you might open a hand like A8o from the HJ, however this hand wouldn't play particularly well in a large multiway pot, so fold! On the other side, a hand like 65s or 22 which would normally be folded in the HJ, is a good hand to get in there and gamble with. Even a hand like 53s can be played if you're confident you'll get a large multiway pot.
Not raising pre is an interesting adjustment, however I'd just open raise and gamble with the boys. Give them action and as you phrased it, embrace the variance. Discount non-suited hands like KJo and upgrade a hand like 86s. You'll need to make hands to win pots here, so play fit or fold. When you flop a good draw, put in the money.
Next time give me a call!!
J Lot
Just AK and big pairs is too tight, but 53s and 86s are too loose. Lower suited connectors go down in value when you can hit a flush and lose to J3s. KJo is not good here. AXs is good. Any suited broadway.
Just AK and big pairs is too tight, but 53s and 86s are too loose. Lower suited connectors go down in value when you can hit a flush and lose to J3s. KJo is not good here. AXs is good. Any suited broadway.
This.
Keep in mind that off suit broadway cards go down in value. Hands like AJo and ATo are very difficult to play in these type of games. Medium pocket pairs are good hands to play. I won’t play a hand like pocket fours for multiple bets. I don’t want to flop an under set.
Fasten your seatbelt. You can have huge swings in this type of game both positive and negative.
Just AK and big pairs is too tight, but 53s and 86s are too loose. Lower suited connectors go down in value when you can hit a flush and lose to J3s. KJo is not good here. AXs is good. Any suited broadway.
My concern with the lower suited connectors is the price we will have to pay to draw. In more normal games the lower suited connectors are nice because we don't share cards with the others and we can possibly win the pot by bluffing. In this game as you mentioned we may run into domination issues. We won't be bluffing these guys out of the pot. That being said, I do think a river bluff raise could work in the right situation because these guys are getting their with nothing quite often.
This sounds like a fun game. The kind where I can dust off at least 5 racks!In these wild type spots the value of high implied odd hands goes up. For example, normally you might open a hand like A8o from the HJ, however this hand wouldn't play particularly well in a large multiway pot, so fold! On the other side, a hand like 65s or 22 which would normally be folded in the HJ
You mentioned playing "fit or fold". With the pot being massive pre flop won't we be just getting way too good of a price to give up if we flop a piece? There were several hands where one of the maniacs won with Q high and then they all had a big laugh. I saw a couple of the TAG regs in the game make good A and K high call downs.
This.
Keep in mind that off suit broadway cards go down in value. Hands like AJo and ATo are very difficult to play in these type of games. Medium pocket pairs are good hands to play. I won’t play a hand like pocket fours for multiple bets. I don’t want to flop an under set.
Fasten your seatbelt. You can have huge swings in this type of game both positive and negative.
Hands like AJo and KJo etc are weird hands. In a more normal but very loose and aggressive game you can obviously run into a lot of trouble with these hands. In this game relative to the maniacs these feel like premium hands. As I mentioned above, Ace high and K high were taking down hands. I'm still not sure how to proceed with these hands. I called two bets a couple times with AJo in the hopes it just ended up a two bet pot. I normally open these UTG. I get dumping the KJo from EP.
Good question and good points. I should clarify my language. By fit or fold I mean play for value, considering the pot odds.
In general you want to play big starting hands and hands that have good implied odds. If you only play big starting hands you might not ever play a hand. Unfortunately you probably will have to put in four bets to play a good implied odds hands and you might not ever flop anything. Your swings will probably be huge. KQo, KJo, QTo type of hands go down in value. I’ve played in games like this where I’ve had massive wins and I’ve quit broke talking to myself.
These are the most frustrating games to play in, but they are also really fun when you run semi-normal.
In general you want to play big starting hands and hands that have good implied odds. If you only play big starting hands you might not ever play a hand. Unfortunately you probably will have to put in four bets to play a good implied odds hands and you might not ever flop anything. Your swings will probably be huge. KQo, KJo, QTo type of hands go down in value. I’ve played in g
When we talk about the unsuited broadways going down in value what does that mean for this game? Should we just fold them? I get that these don't play well but when you see guy's capping Q8o etc. it's tough too let them go. I don't mind mucking KTo and QTo. Hands like KJo and KQo though feel at least worthy of a play.
What do the solvers say?
sorry but i dont think playing only suited broadway, Axs and big pairs is gonna max wins in this game, plus you will probably go on entitlement tilt waiting for hands only to get sucked out on. mongidig sounds like this is your experience.
max money is won pushing 1% eq pf advantages over and over and over in these games inc small pairs and small sc's; not occasionally pushing 3-5% eq advantages with 15% VPIP. this prob includes doing weird stuff like CRing the turn with a flush draw when you have lots of multiway action. also i dont think hands like KJo and ATo suck here either, youll win more than your fair share with them but just not as often as suited versions. if you play ATo in a 6 way capped pot and win more than 1/6 times you are printing money, and if maniacs are playing 50-90% vpip ATo will win more often than that. i think i might have like 30% vpip in this game outside of the blinds.
i also dont think its true that playing looser will show higher variance than playing tighter here. that doesnt make sense to me because higher wr in poker = lower variance, and if 30% vpip has higher wr than 15% vpip then that means lower variance at 30% vpip.
Playing twice as many hands will definitely increase variance more than any tiny increase in win rate might decrease it.
Of course if you're ok with the variance you should still try to increase your win rate.
But the fact that ATo has more than its share of preflop equity doesn't prove that it will be profitable.
Unsuited hands can make it to showdown quite a bit more often than suited ones.
Plus, you're trying to win money, not pots. Easily dominated hands have RIO - you're going to win smaller pots and lose bigger ones. Same reason you'd rather have KQs than A2o (or probably even ATo) in a typical game.
I must be an absolute maniac because I would probably consider ajo and kqo a nutted hand in that lineup.
These games are pretty much all decided by fearlessness and not getting blown off your equity, as well as getting hands that win at showdown.
sorry but i dont think playing only suited broadway, Axs and big pairs is gonna max wins in this game, plus you will probably go on entitlement tilt waiting for hands only to get sucked out on. mongidig sounds like this is your experience.max money is won pushing 1% eq pf advantages over and over and over in these games inc small pairs and small sc's; not occasionally pushing 3
I've only played with this line up once but I want to fine tune my strategy for next time. I was terribly card dead in this game. In 8 hours my biggest pocket pair was JJ's. I had AK twice and that's about it for premiums. A tag next to me said I was lucky to be card dead because the maniacs were hitting hands. I won a massive pot with 55's on a Q3Q57. One of the maniacs had a Q and the other went runner runner flush. It was capped on all streets. I left a rack up and felt grateful. I've been playing this game too long to go on "entitlement" tilt.
I would play solid ranges. If it is going 4-way or more, I would play all pps, but it getting capped preflop does not help. It sounds like a really good game, but with variance. There aren't so many good limit games these days.
I've only played with this line up once but I want to fine tune my strategy for next time. I was terribly card dead in this game. In 8 hours my biggest pocket pair was JJ's. I had AK twice and that's about it for premiums. A tag next to me said I was lucky to be card dead because the maniacs were hitting hands. I won a massive pot with 55's on a Q3Q57. One of the maniacs had a
Yow, it couldn't have been right for you to even see the turn.
I've played in two more games like this since I posted this thread and got hammered. Down three racks in both games. I was disturbingly card dead. I seem to not hit cards when maniacs are around. I was literally shell shocked at one time given the amount of horrific luck I was having. The game was great but I had to go. I usually don't get tilted but this was bad. How do these guys usually have 74o type hands but in monster pots against me they have pocket Aces? I had a great month nearly come undone in the last two sessions.
Is there anything worse than getting stuck in a great game and then one of the maniacs leaves and the other one dials it way back and starts playing semi normal? Also watching the other good players at the game pile up the chips hurts.
3 racks only while running cold? I could dust off 3 racks in an hour in one of those insane Bike games I used to play.
