Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread
User "MoneyTaker69" is alleged to be superusing on GG Poker.
In December, Moneytaker won at 90bb/100 on GG Poker in 8,900 hands playing 53% VPIP. Soon after, he binked a $150 Sunday MTT for $47,586 while playing an extremely volatile strategy, which aroused a lot of suspicion. GG Poker has acknowledged the situation privately and is preparing to address it, but it's important for the public to know immediately due to the significance of superusing.
The Results
The following results graph comes from Smarthand, a site that tracks online poker results. MoneyTaker won at 90bb/100 in December playing 53/17.
Typically, a player with this VPIP/PFR ratio would be in the -50bb/100 range. Even if we were impossibly generous and said he was breakeven, this run would be a statical anomaly. For a -50bb recreational? Impossible.
Here is a primedope simulation of the probability of a breakeven player having this run.
The following is a simulation of possible runs for a player with a given winrate using primedope's variance calculator. The light blue line at the top of the graph represents the "Best" run, which is the luckiest run a person could have in 1,000 trials.
This is a -50bb player playing 9000 hands. Their luckiest run is around -10 buyins. Mokeytaker won 77 buy-ins.
Additionally, MoneyTaker won a $150 GG Masters Sunday MTT, which is a big open field tournament. This makes the possibility of chip dumping or targeting specific players with a virus much less likely.
The Hands
The following hands were collected by various users as examples of likely foul play.
How is he cheating?
Based off his play, the most natural explanation is that he can see the cards. He rarely puts in money significantly behind or calls the river with the worst hand. Also, his winrate is so high that RTA could not possibly explain it.
It's unclear how he's able to see others' cards, and it's possible he's not the only one exploiting a glitch in the system. A post on 2+2 highlighted a group of suspicious accounts that played for brief stints and won for >30bb/100, which is particularly difficult on GG due to their rake structure.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
There is no clear evidence that the players highlighted in the above post are superusing, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that this could be a larger issue at scale if done by hackers that want to be less obvious than running >50% VPIP.
Hacker Group
"MoneyTaker" is a hacker group. It's unclear if this account is in any way associated with them or if it's just incidental, but worth mentioning.
What's Next?
As a community, we await GG Poker's response. I'm confident they'll do the right thing and share everything they know about this incident shortly.
There was a bug in their software that anyone who knew about it and had the software could exploit. Theoretically, it didn't have to be insiders.
It is almost certain there were other superusers. Maybe they are cleaning it up quietly and want to cover up how much cheating was going on?
Anyway, online poker is dead. That is, I can't beat it.
In real life when there is such an obvious "bug" in your software and you do not fix it the reason is you put it there deliberately.
In real life when there is such an obvious "bug" in your software and you do not fix it the reason is you put it there deliberately.
The bug is in those running the poker site and another **** you explanation with zero even proof of anything. There is no tracking on GG so they can Superuser and run bots. Super Users on a online poker site is the craziest thing possible. Not one hand outside what the poker community tracked has been added by the site who should give all this data to the man who worked it out. A legit site would kissing his arse with lifetime free roles
This. Typically posting a request in a thread hoping a mod will see it will get you mixed results. No need to worry now, as I happened to see this one, so it's done. Removed the other posts that aren't needed now, and I might remove this one in a bit as well.
This is obviously an in house GG poker Scam. A load of fake news released on the screen name Money Taker 69 to imply that the site was hacked over the obvious inside job. Details and information on what happened not released and no mention of even the possibility of more superusers. No offer of data so trusted people can run simple data analysis that will show up a superuser with zero doubt.. Also, collusion and Bots can not pass any simple data analysis. No one is hacking poker servers and maki
This seems pretty possible to me as well. The Ultimatebet scandal happened at a time where there was more of a synchronization of poker players and site support. Every big site had a dedicated thread on this forum where reps would come in and chat. There was well known poker players whom had made many connects with these sites. So when the scandal began to unravel it was easier to get inside information. For instance it became knowledge that Russ Hamilton was tied to at least a couple of these accounts before UB ever admitted to it. That could never have happened without knowing people with access to the backend data that were willing to look into these things for us. There’s nothing like that anymore so it’s never been easier to make an easy lie that substitutes lack of competence for admitting insiders were cheating.
Yep online poker is dead, go tell the at least one million players who play every month. They need to stop.
Oh wait, you said "at least in the USA". Yup, MURICA is the world, forgot about that.
Go have another scotch, why are you even on an online poker forum? Oh wait you drink it "on da rocks" typical don't even know how to properly taste and not water down your whisky.
Some questions to tickle your brain:
1) Where does the "Texas" in Texas Hold Em come from?
2) What other variabts of Poker are played online.
3) Where does the Omaha in Pot Limit Omaha come from?
4) Where are Two Plus Two books published in?
5) Where are the servers you are posting in?
Muricacentrism is a thing for sure, but Poker is their domain, not the right place to claim an American bias.
The truth is online poker in the US is banned, except in some states where it's a closed circuit.
Online poker is effectively underground or left to Rest of the World, which is a secondary market.
Live poker is where it's at. And that's good, at least get a little bit of exercise between home and the casino instead of focusing all of the exercise on your index finger.
This is the perfect timing for pokerstars to do something and gain a good % amount of players that are leaving GG.
Bring back a good rakeback system,implement some features to induce action (badbeat jackpot,cash drops,leaderboards...).
But I guess PS won't do anything,soon mostly players will forget about this "incident" and GG will keep growing.
Yes please.
I have big respects for an org to survive for this long, giants fall for one reason or the other, but the reputation of PokerStars is impollute. No small feat.
It's possible, why not? Especially since the username was tied to an anonymous hacking group.
Compromising servers with root access actually happens all the time, there's a whole industry about it.
The most common monetization of pwning servers is installing ransomware, but that's just mass attacks,
for a targeted attack such as this one, the monetization method can be targeted so as to maximize the value.
Thanks for mentioning and explaining this. Im sure noone here ever heard of it.
Chances are very high that the real reason why u stopped playing online was because u sucked at it. like most live players do when they go online. And usually they like to blame everything else but themself.
And there you are. It didn't take too long to hook a pathetic sad looser. Thanks for reminding me why I haven't logged on to this forum for over a decade. I got board responding to idiots like you. Do you feel like a big man when you insult posters on here. Don't you realise that your reply says more about YOU than it does me. If making a decent steady profit at live poker means I suck at poker then so be it. At least I'll never be a sad little man like you Hellsreal.
And there you are. It didn't take too long to hook a pathetic sad looser. Thanks for reminding me why I haven't logged on to this forum for over a decade. I got board responding to idiots like you. Do you feel like a big man when you insult posters on here. Don't you realise that your reply says more about YOU than it does me. If making a decent steady profit at live poker means I suck at poker then so be it. At least I'll never be a sad little man like you Hellsreal.
Ok then, see u in 10 years...
Sometimes the truth hurts. Lets hope u can get over it and one day and u can live a normal live again.
In real life when there is such an obvious "bug" in your software and you do not fix it the reason is you put it there deliberately.
Right, the team that designed the terrible protocol 10 or more years ago just knew that there would be exploits available in Adobe Air, and that the UI team would leave Air in place long after it went out of support. Or even better, they got the word from upper management to make sure the protocol could be exploited, and they would receive nice rewards year after year for keeping their mouths shut. As would anyone else who joined the team.
I worked on products where the protocol was found to have security vulnerabilities after it had been shipped and set in stone (also a design flaw). With a big client base and product infrastructure around such a protocol, it can be a massive (expensive) engineering process to fix.
Your assertion needs a lot of evidence to prove malice, where there is demonstrated incompetence.
https://twitter.com/beyondtiltbro/status...
Here we go again.... wow
So there is quite likely an insider job going on aswell.
Alot of Brazilians on the GGpoker office roster too.....
Has D Negs told us that more superusers are better yet ?
https://twitter.com/beyondtiltbro/status...
Here we go again.... wow
So there is quite likely an insider job going on aswell.
Alot of Brazilians on the GGpoker office roster too.....
Its probably just a hot streak, or was it?
Every hot streak will have a ? over it now at GGPoker...
https://twitter.com/beyondtiltbro/status...
Here we go again.... wow
So there is quite likely an insider job going on aswell.
Alot of Brazilians on the GGpoker office roster too.....
Look, at this point nothing can be ruled out, but this is just not evidence worthy... It's unlikely, yes. But this has happened on stars eg many times before. Remember 10 years ago or so when a guy won like 3 huge field mtts on the same Sunday, smt like this.
If we polute the evidence with "evidence" like this, gg's life is made easy, as they can claim everyone is a conspiracy theorists.
Go look at the new nl10 superuser thread, there is much more and much more unlikely evidence in that thread already.
https://twitter.com/beyondtiltbro/status...
Here we go again.... wow
So there is quite likely an insider job going on aswell.
Alot of Brazilians on the GGpoker office roster too.....
Jan 2020 I deposited $300 at Stars and made 2 5° places at Sunday Million one with 9000+ runners and other with 25000+ runners in a 3 week or month period not sure exactly so things like that does really happen [emoji846], its unlikely ofc but like winning the lotery can happen.
Look, at this point nothing can be ruled out, but this is just not evidence worthy... It's unlikely, yes. But this has happened on stars eg many times before. Remember 10 years ago or so when a guy won like 3 huge field mtts on the same Sunday, smt like this.
If we polute the evidence with "evidence" like this, gg's life is made easy, as they can claim everyone is a conspiracy theorists.
Go look at the new nl10 superuser thread, there is much more and much more unlikely evidence in that thread alr
I 100% agree this can definitely happen, these MTTs with 3-4k runners or so, while statistically close to impossible to win twice in the same week, it does happen just because of the huge amount of trials that happen in this "dice roll" so to speak. And again, we can't be sure at this point but I don't think we should use MTT examples primarily as an example of cheating, because this stuff can definitely happen. But I think it's good that people keep an eye out on these players.
The CG sunruns are much clearer evidence (although at least they are easier to spot and much more obvious).
if this stuff didn't happen the site is very likely rigged in some capacity
https://twitter.com/beyondtiltbro/status...
Here we go again.... wow
So there is quite likely an insider job going on aswell.
Alot of Brazilians on the GGpoker office roster too.....
Are the VPIP, PFR, etc stats in those images specific to those tournaments? Or are they computed at the player level?
If they're tournament-specific, quite worrying to see the EXACT same stats for every single metric...
Another GGPoker SuperUser alert: Still active and playing right now!
User: GaiatinhoR9 (GGNetwork) (Brazilian player lol)
I have posted the handhistory where the player over calls 25bbs with 45 off very late in the tournament and hits straight on river in a huge pot when i have Aces ( player timed out for more than 30 seconds most likely to look at his all in equity) then called. He previously won the mystery bounty box (22k plus players a week earlier).
https://twitter.com/beyondtiltbro/status...
Here we go again.... wow
So there is quite likely an insider job going on aswell.
Alot of Brazilians on the GGpoker office roster too.....
Some stuff is just variance though. I was in a discord group with a guy who just started playing and didn't know much about the game and 4 months later he shipped a $55 WCOOP. He even chalked his win up to "studying a lot" lol. Weird stuff happens, it's not all fraud.
Another GGPoker SuperUser alert: Still active and playing right now!
User: GaiatinhoR9 (GGNetwork) (Brazilian player lol)
I have posted the handhistory where the player over calls 25bbs with 45 off very late in the tournament and hits straight on river in a huge pot when i have Aces ( player timed out for more than 30 seconds most likely to look at his all in equity) then called. He previously won the mystery bounty box (22k plus players a week earlier).
This is my 3rd or 4th account on 2+2 because my previous accounts were banned when I made claims that GG was rigged with superusers.
Where are all the posts about what an idiot the OP is?
Why didn't the mods ban him?
I wonder if there are any real humans left on this site but there is a clear issue here with the mods using fake accounts to try and influence what becomes "popular opinion"
Potripper 2.0 somehow went unnoticed, and it didn't get deleted like the other GG House bots. To single this to one user or an isolated incident would be wrong and extremely naive. I don't know what percentage of the players on GG are real but I think most tables are 70% super user house bots.
I saw some people foolish enough to recommend Pokerstars. Pokerstars is worse than GG. There isn't an online poker site that has fair or safe games. I think these sites are just fronts to distract from their real purpose, which is money laundering. (or just a way for criminals, politicians, etc. to move money around)
