Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread
User "MoneyTaker69" is alleged to be superusing on GG Poker.
In December, Moneytaker won at 90bb/100 on GG Poker in 8,900 hands playing 53% VPIP. Soon after, he binked a $150 Sunday MTT for $47,586 while playing an extremely volatile strategy, which aroused a lot of suspicion. GG Poker has acknowledged the situation privately and is preparing to address it, but it's important for the public to know immediately due to the significance of superusing.
The Results
The following results graph comes from Smarthand, a site that tracks online poker results. MoneyTaker won at 90bb/100 in December playing 53/17.
Typically, a player with this VPIP/PFR ratio would be in the -50bb/100 range. Even if we were impossibly generous and said he was breakeven, this run would be a statical anomaly. For a -50bb recreational? Impossible.
Here is a primedope simulation of the probability of a breakeven player having this run.
The following is a simulation of possible runs for a player with a given winrate using primedope's variance calculator. The light blue line at the top of the graph represents the "Best" run, which is the luckiest run a person could have in 1,000 trials.
This is a -50bb player playing 9000 hands. Their luckiest run is around -10 buyins. Mokeytaker won 77 buy-ins.
Additionally, MoneyTaker won a $150 GG Masters Sunday MTT, which is a big open field tournament. This makes the possibility of chip dumping or targeting specific players with a virus much less likely.
The Hands
The following hands were collected by various users as examples of likely foul play.
How is he cheating?
Based off his play, the most natural explanation is that he can see the cards. He rarely puts in money significantly behind or calls the river with the worst hand. Also, his winrate is so high that RTA could not possibly explain it.
It's unclear how he's able to see others' cards, and it's possible he's not the only one exploiting a glitch in the system. A post on 2+2 highlighted a group of suspicious accounts that played for brief stints and won for >30bb/100, which is particularly difficult on GG due to their rake structure.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
There is no clear evidence that the players highlighted in the above post are superusing, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that this could be a larger issue at scale if done by hackers that want to be less obvious than running >50% VPIP.
Hacker Group
"MoneyTaker" is a hacker group. It's unclear if this account is in any way associated with them or if it's just incidental, but worth mentioning.
What's Next?
As a community, we await GG Poker's response. I'm confident they'll do the right thing and share everything they know about this incident shortly.
take up the topic (forgive me for my errors)
On forum https://forum.gipsyteam.ru/index.php?vie... people created a post about Flipout 180k
01/13/24 at 18:00 Moscow time. In the Flipout 180k tournament (New Year's freeroll for completing tasks), a completely new account appeared at the same table with me, and to get into this tournament I had to earn chips by completing tasks. Players who completed 8 daily tasks took part in this tournament, the question is where did he get it from? chips? The poker support said that they would conduct a check, they said that they do not share the results of the check with the players. I think this bot is related to Pokerok. I'll post the screenshots below.
Hey just to put you at ease he would have accrued the chips from care/cheers in cash games - which you do not have any visibility on.
Yeah, whoever made those screen shots (doesn't appear to be the same guy who posted them here) probably should provide more detail on what those "tasks" are, and if there is any way to bypass them. At the moment, the Flipout shots could range from major red flag to absolute nothingburger.
Hey just to put you at ease he would have accrued the chips from care/cheers in cash games - which you do not have any visibility on.
Yes, I understand that he could play private games and we will not be able to see his statistics. This is not accusing GG of cheating, but simply observing interesting winnings. Similarly, in the boutny tournament, the top knockout 100k was won by a nickname with similar empty statistics.
Yeah, whoever made those screen shots (doesn't appear to be the same guy who posted them here) probably should provide more detail on what those "tasks" are, and if there is any way to bypass them. At the moment, the Flipout shots could range from major red flag to absolute nothingburger.
He writes that he sent a request to the GG support service and is awaiting a response from them.
So y'all coming back to stars?
Unless Doug Polk or any other guy with a lot of public brings this to people attention, most players won't know what's happening. I have more than 300 players and few knew about this. We are talking about pro players,,,cant imagine fun players...
Not enough clicks in it for Dougie, he craves the attention and this won't do it for him.
This just isn’t as sexy of a topic and not nearly as big of an issue as many as those currently still entrenched online think it is
The first super user was like 15 years ago and it was a past wsop champ insider who could see the hole cards.
Now it’s way later more than ten years after vast majority of poker players consider online to be dead and buried. At least in USA. And it’s an outsider who could see all in equities. I get how seeing the equities is just as good but not as exciting.
Just tur
Yep online poker is dead, go tell the at least one million players who play every month. They need to stop.
Oh wait, you said "at least in the USA". Yup, MURICA is the world, forgot about that.
Go have another scotch, why are you even on an online poker forum? Oh wait you drink it "on da rocks" typical don't even know how to properly taste and not water down your whisky.
The most amazing thing about this entire debacle;
GG KNEW about the exploit. What did they do?
The patched the software but DID NOT make it mandatory.
More importantly THEY DIDN'T BAN THE ACCOUNT THEY ADMIT THAT THEY KNEW WAS DOING IT!! FOR TWO f'n WEEKS AT LEAST!
And yet the sheep are all still playing there. Just hilarious. "the games are just too good"
I stopped playing online poker years ago when it became blatantly obvious that there were superusers on most if not all sites. It doesn't need to be the site itself cheating, just one or more of their employees or IT people.
For many years I played live cash and tournaments six or seven days a week so I've had just about every bad beat possible when playing. But I've never seen the strange all-in calls on the river with J high or less like I do online. (I have made and seen river calls with A high and King high as bluff catchers on certain run outs when players are polarised, but it's different online, when suspicious players call 3 bets on every street, and then an all in on the river with J high (no flush or straight draws to justify their calls).
We've known since the Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker scandal in 2007 that superuser accounts were possible, so why would anyone think it was just those two sites? It will have been happening for years, but most superusers are probably more careful not to draw too much attention to themselves so they lose just enough hands to deflect suspicion while still making a steady profit.
It's like every walk of life. If corruption is possible, it will happen.
Further to my last.
The superuser accounts on Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet turned out to be connected to the sites. They were not hackers hacking into the site, They had access to create the several superuser accounts such as Potripper etc.
Further to my last.
The superuser accounts on Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet turned out to be connected to the sites. They were not hackers hacking into the site, They had access to create the several superuser accounts such as Potripper etc.
Thanks for mentioning and explaining this. Im sure noone here ever heard of it.
Chances are very high that the real reason why u stopped playing online was because u sucked at it. like most live players do when they go online. And usually they like to blame everything else but themself.
Yep online poker is dead, go tell the at least one million players who play every month. They need to stop.
Oh wait, you said "at least in the USA". Yup, MURICA is the world, forgot about that.
Go have another scotch, why are you even on an online poker forum? Oh wait you drink it "on da rocks" typical don't even know how to properly taste and not water down your whisky.
I think a couple foreign clownos bought this forum but it is mostly an an American site. We are aren’t typing in Portuguese.
But yeah online is dead
Oh have the special rocks that are frozen but don’t melt, hope that helps
This is obviously an in house GG poker Scam. A load of fake news released on the screen name Money Taker 69 to imply that the site was hacked over the obvious inside job. Details and information on what happened not released and no mention of even the possibility of more superusers. No offer of data so trusted people can run simple data analysis that will show up a superuser with zero doubt.. Also, collusion and Bots can not pass any simple data analysis. No one is hacking poker servers and making one super user account and then getting caught for ridiculous play by the players without the poker site knowing everything.. GG is show poker
Unless Doug Polk or any other guy with a lot of public brings this to people attention, most players won't know what's happening. I have more than 300 players and few knew about this. We are talking about pro players,,,cant imagine fun players...
When it comes to show poker its up to the cheater who they take from and everyone has zero chance. The pro has just a better chance of working it out
This is obviously an in house GG poker Scam. A load of fake news released on the screen name Money Taker 69 to imply that the site was hacked over the obvious inside job. Details and information on what happened not released and no mention of even the possibility of more superusers. No offer of data so trusted people can run simple data analysis that will show up a superuser with zero doubt.. Also, collusion and Bots can not pass any simple data analysis. No one is hacking poker servers and maki
correct! FYI, nobody is claiming any server was hacked.
His reply was already silly because the qualifier "at least in the USA" was already clarifying that the post was suggesting it was dead in the USA as opposed to the world.
Just clearing up any possible confusion about 2+2 traffic, as it's a common misperception that it's much more heavily weighted to the US, IE almost all Americans.
His reply was already silly because the qualifier "at least in the USA" was already clarifying that the post was suggesting it was dead in the USA as opposed to the world.
Just clearing up any possible confusion about 2+2 traffic, as it's a common misperception that it's much more heavily weighted to the US, IE almost all Americans.
what are the breakdowns?
i don't know nothing about servers or hacking, i just know that this is the exact behavioural process of this type of crime to the level that GG are admitting it with 100% confidence. also with 100% confidence will be no defending of anything or details of anything related so you can not figure it out and benefit given by definition. Like OJ Simpson. Data can prove anything online a million times over mathematically but GG know to ride out the storm and leave it to the loyal pro's they sponsor that make it hard to attack as your only outlet.
There was a bug in their software that anyone who knew about it and had the software could exploit. Theoretically, it didn't have to be insiders.
It is almost certain there were other superusers. Maybe they are cleaning it up quietly and want to cover up how much cheating was going on?
Anyway, online poker is dead. That is, I can't beat it.
His reply was already silly because the qualifier "at least in the USA" was already clarifying that the post was suggesting it was dead in the USA as opposed to the world.
Just clearing up any possible confusion about 2+2 traffic, as it's a common misperception that it's much more heavily weighted to the US, IE almost all Americans.
Bad dental issues can cause anger sometimes :shrug:
There was a bug in their software that anyone who knew about it and had the software could exploit. Theoretically, it didn't have to be insiders.
It is almost certain there were other superusers. Maybe they are cleaning it up quietly and want to cover up how much cheating was going on?
Anyway, online poker is dead. That is, I can't beat it.
Dead for sure, the online sites all did the same thing to ensure that happened
