WSOP 2023 ME deep(ish) run payout trouble
Hello, Workaholics!
My name is Pavel, I play poker for over 10 years now, a very few of you may know me as "bomba-tiktak" on pokerstars. I currently play cash online on Ontario based platforms.
And..... I'm having concerns that I'm getting robbed by Paris cage and some of the WSOP representatives.
There's a lot of little things that are making me think so, but I will try to keep this post as short as possible.
So, this summer I finished 48th in ME this year for a payout of $188400 and I only managed to get $50000 out of Paris cage, which i took in cash, while the other $138400
was supposed to be sent to my bank account via wire transfer.
But... according to the Paris cage manager Meagan Marks and WSOP poker operations director Andrew Cash, this wire transfer had been placed on hold (for almost a month now) for investigation by my bank's intermediary and they cannot do anything about it at this point. Even give me a wire federal tracking number so I can come to my bank and ask questions.
I spent three weeks trying to sort it out with Andy via everyday e-mails , and he only provided me with misleading information, dodging the tracking info question for as long as possible.
The latest update was that he cannot get the tracking info from Paris cage.
A little recap of what happened:
I used my Russian passport to avoid paying the draconic 30% tax for North Americans (sorry guys), but I wanted my wire to go to TD Canada USD account.
I gave a paper with my wire information to the Paris cage clerk, and she refused it (?!). Only asked to fill out the WSOP wire form, which didn't require any addresses.
I didn't know the importance of it at that point.
Of course, they put my Russian address and no wonder the wire never went through. They sent wire on December 14th, allegedly.
Since then series of weird things happened:
1. When I first asked about confirmation of a processed wire they sent me a document which showed that this wire is still "Awaiting approval". Later they apologized and told me that it was a wrong document and it should've never been sent to me.
2. When I asked Meagan about tracking info, she sent me their banks SWIFT information, which is a least important piece of information needed to track a wire transfer.
She also mentioned that she works in this industry for many years and knows exactly that this is what my bank needs in order to help me .
3. Then Andy Rich took over. Allegedly, they sent a request to Wells Fargo to track this wire. Wells Fargo investigated and concluded that some information was missing, and on 28/12 Paris cage sent the missing information and the money can show up any time now (nobody ever asked me about my Canadian address).
Around January 7th, Andy provided me with an update that the transfer is on hold by my bank's intermediary and Wells Fargo is waiting for their response. I requested the tracking number again, and he replied that it is not in his power to get it from the Paris cage.
They offered me to come to Vegas and request a wire recall, which would take around 14 business days, but at this point I find it difficult to trust them (for example, Mr. Cash has a picture of a Vampire on his LinkedIn background) and would like to hear the people's opinion first.
Maybe some of you accountants, lawyers, and maybe even witchers would be able to help me to finally receive my hardly earned T-dollars. Why on earth are they refusing to give me the tracking number?
The money is supposed to be picked up by a player within three years. Maybe they want the wire to get arrested until further resolution, or just keep telling me that it is stuck between banks. With this kind of customer service it is almost impossible to get an official statement out of them. So they can keep telling me they have no power to process the payment, that the money is not available etc.
Maybe someone within WSOP management also hates my guts for trying to avoid paying the 30%, and wa
A Russian player with a Canadian account is why it's not going smoothly.
The WSOP is not trying to keep your money.
And they don’t care about your tax liability one way or the other.
This is above their heads and I imagine it’s just a big headache for them as well.
OP: Based on everything you told, you're clearly taxable in Canada, you spend more than half a year in Canada and that makes you a tax resident. Even if you would spend under 1/2 year it could be a thing in certain situations. In everyone of your posts you seem to think you can choose your nationality, residency and whatnot like a shopping list. That's not how it is in the real world, unfortunately, there are rules for that, the specifics depend on each country, often they have a double taxation agreement. Even if not there are some binding international rules.The 30% BTW are from the US govt, they have nothing to do with the WSOP, no matter how your case goes Caesars will keep nada of it
Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1 an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, then his status shall be determined as follows:
A. he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which he has a permanent home available to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both States, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State with which his personal and economic relations are closer (centre of vital interests);
B. if the State in which he has his centre of vital interests cannot be determined, or if he has not a permanent home available to him in either State, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which he has an habitual abode;
C. if he has an habitual abode in both States or in neither of them, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State of which he is a citizen;
D. if each State considers him as its citizen or if neither State considers him as its citizen, the competent authorities of the Contracting States shall settle the question by mutual agreement.
From Canada-Russia tax treaty.
Here I’m not even sure Canada should be involved at all. Since the tournament was played in the USA and entered it as a Russian citizen.
In the usa you can get money back for reporting tax evasion
Where by reason of the provisions of paragraph 1 an individual is a resident of both Contracting States, then his status shall be determined as follows:
A. he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State in which he has a permanent home available to him; if he has a permanent home available to him in both States, he shall be deemed to be a resident of the State with which his personal and economic relations are closer (centre of vital interests);
B. if the State in which he has his centre of vita
You're not a resident of Russia anymore since you're absent for 1+ year already.
Face it Pavel, your days are numbered. Go into hiding. KGB going to extradite your ass to the Siberian gulag for failure to contribute to Putin’s war coffers. Bad mistake to go public with all this. Run!
But you have yourself, which is the key bit.
It's like you think you're angle shooting but they've already got a rule for it.
not so sure wsop has a rule for people with dual citizenships who can be considered residents in both countries. When I was asking about the payout I was assured that its no problem.
Andy replied with a huge update.
Wire has been returned to Caesars , they are deciding on the next steps now.
We agreed on the check option.
They do have my number.
And I know that they want to call in order to smooth talk me into whatever they want. That’s what CSR vampires do, it’s their job
to use manipulative scripts and that makes them proud. So I’m perfectly happy with e-mails.
Rocking the boat is exactly my goal here. Poker should belong to people, not to ceasears entertainment. I put my poker reputation at stake here, possibly even freedom. And now they’re already taking too much time to make a decision. And in my ideal world
Here you were coming across as a greedy, selfish, taker vampire. But all this time you were actually in there fighting for the people, selflessly taking these slings and arrows so the rest of us will never have to. You may not be the hero poker deserves, but you’re the hero poker needs.
He wanted to wire to a Canadian bank account
when we picking up the check ?
Already deposited. They mailed it to me, full amount. Now waiting 15 business days for the money to be available.
In the meantime gotta run and hide from CRA and KGB…
Now, I can say Andy Rich did a great job handling this situation.
He became WSOP operations manager only recently, and I suspect his hands might have been tied in terms of dealing with Paris cage.
But when I requested the M103 form the money magically returned to Paris on the next day and 2 days later I received a check.
So best wishes to mr. Rich on becoming the Dana White of WSOP!
And thanks to all of you for the comments and 6k+ views, it might have played a big part in resolving this issue.
If i get to lose 30% , so be it. that's fine. it's just sad that WSOP's attitude towards players is so demeaning these days. Even if they disliked my greedy intention to choose a 13% tax option over 30% (for an mtt, for ****'s sakes). They should've recalled that the ME is an iconic competition where all kinds of players - levels, pronounces and nationalities are battling for the most prestigious mtt of all time, and they play a part in this spectacle.
But some individuals , middle-managers, wit
If I were you I would take Mr. Rich's advice and do exactly what he proposes here. Better to work within the system then to try to get around it. I made a couple of good scores at the WSOP in the past and when they offered me my options I opted to take cash, and they send a 1099 form to the IRS. I paid taxes on it both times this happened, about 15%.
Already deposited. They mailed it to me, full amount. Now waiting 15 business days for the money to be available.
In the meantime gotta run and hide from CRA and KGB…
Now, I can say Andy Rich did a great job handling this situation.
He became WSOP operations manager only recently, and I suspect his hands might have been tied in terms of dealing with Paris cage.
But when I requested the M103 form the money magically returned to Paris on the next day and 2 days later I received a check.
So best wishe
There you go. Looks like you took my advice after all.
Just read through this whole thing and have some questions here. I believe Russia doesn't allow dual citizenship does it? Also do you really have Canadian citizenship. First you have to be a resident for 3+ years I believe and if you are an adult, have to be paying taxes during that time. Of course we all know there are a lot of people "gaming" the system for whatever the reason. If you left to avoid getting dragged into Russia's aggression that's up to you but that wouldn't give you enough time to get Canadian citizenship.
Really sounds like someone trying to avoid paying legit taxes if he has Canadian residence. Windfalls won IN Canada, like poker winnings, lotteries, etc are not taxable here in Ontario however if won somewhere outside of Canada it depends on the tax treaty between involved countries.
There are definitely some facts we are not being told here.
Russia will not cancel your citizenship if you get a citizenship somewhere else. “Dual citizenship” is something like an agreement between two countries, I guess.
I got my Canadian passport in 2007.
I was trying to avoid higher taxes, legit or not legit we will see if I’m still free one year from now or so.
