Mega thread - ideas to combat cheating
Hi everyone, been a poker pro for couple years and long time lurker. I think most of us would agree that the online poker ecosystem has gotten grimier in many ways and if we, as players don't actively try to clean up our 'office', not many if any, will do anything about it.
2 MAIN PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD
1) drum up viable ideas to combat all forms of cheating
2) spread the word on social media or otherwise try to get these ideas to the relevant operators
I will start.
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To address CHEATING on IGNITION/BODOG/BOVODA network
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A) Consider removing regular tables and only run zoom/zone games;
B) alternatively, remove the extra timebank and reduce the amount of time/decision so cheaters have less time to coordinate. This should also help combat RTA to some degree.
WHY?
First and most importantly, its significantly more difficult for cheaters to coordinate, share hole cards, reads etc. when they have 15 seconds to act without extra time than regular tables with 30s + 30s timebank.
Two, it removes grimy predatory behaviour that players can get up to - so for example, if a new table starts with a rec and he sits to your left and there are multiple open seats available to the rec's right, you can basically close the table and spam re-join until you get a better seat, especially in pools where the player pool is smaller on higher stakes.
Three, recs on average lose less on zone/zoom games than on reg tables - MDA has demonstrated this. And since there is a interest for the operator to keep the rec alive as long as possible so that they can keep the games running and RAKED for as long as possible, there IS a significant incentive for the operator to implement this as well.
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To address SCRIPTING on IPOKER NETWORK / 888 NETWORK
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To those who play on these 2 separate networks, you'll probably observe that when someone "reserves" a seat on a table that is not filled, we can see that there are few players, likely with a seating script, who then "reserves" their seat within 0.5s upo. Are there outliers who is able to grind, monitor lobby and sit in sub-human reflexes? Sure but those are few.
I don't know how viable this idea is but I think if the operators' security create new accounts (such that the scripters have not labelled them) and joined the tables, which will trigger the players using seating scripts to join PROMPTLY with SUB-HUMAN REFLEXES consistently (perhaps the operators can use multiple different new accounts to join to create a pattern of behaviour
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Good luck to those who are still out there grinding.
And MUCH THANKS in advance to those who contribute ideas, provide constructive feedback and those who would get this message to the 'right' people on social media, gambling operators. I have no social media presence so would appreciate it if everyone here can spread the word on socials.
Stables with MDA are, in fkn fact, illegal, and plain cancer for poker!
Their ghosting and colluding, i dont need to mention.
May they all go to hell, and get analed without vaseline, those subhuman inbred scums
I had a backer in the golden days too, but he didnt even try to coach me, or tell me anything aside of what my max buy-ins should be.
He was even okay with me streaming weekly 530$ 8game with 20 players, which i bubbled three times in a row...
When all have all informations, its cool...?
Bollocks! Recreationals arent going to farm HH and analyze them...
Real Name for losers, too? Bollocks, as i said
Gouvernements might maybe change ****?
Get a grip...
Etc etc....
Post above me... Aaaand /thread
One or two tables per household. Regulated by Feds. Using webcams at each table. No other software running. Short time banks.
Make it 4
Then start the war, cause we are in the floor
Army of Hardcore.... Hardcore!
Thats not true.
I'm communicate with 15+ stables owners and none of them using ghosting and colluding on daily basis. The reason of it that ghosting and colluding are a strong violations in the eyes of the public and every stable have high-rotation of the players inside the stable, players come and players go and all players commucate with each other. So if any stable use ghosting and colluding on daily routine it will be known very fast, they will get hate and will lose the reputation, lose players, it's not worth it in the long run. These are simple incentives.
For what you can hate stables is that they have analytics departments, game selection departments, they study everything and every player who come to the stable is playing better and understand the game better. But its legit.
For me important that stables are indicators that games are good. If stable play - there is no broken RNG, no superusers, no massive bots sitting into the game. Stables will not play bad games with cheaters sitting in. So from my perspective they are helping to the ecology, by verifiyng on practice that games are good. If stables not play somewhere - thats indicator of something is wrong with a place.
Webcams are the answer (unfortunately), and it will happen. Possibly with client monitor access to your device. This is has been done in education to prevent cheating for years, and all American university students are already used to it. Other players do not necessarily have to see you. Client can record the videos and review if cheating is suspected. The AI can even flag suspicious activity, also done in education already. This is the answer.
Four crucial measures that need to be implemented to combat cheating and ensure the integrity of the game:
Full Disclosure of Game Histories: The first and most vital step is the complete transparency of hand histories. By making game histories fully accessible, any fraudulent activity can be uncovered, preventing cheating in the long run.
Real Name Policy: Playing online poker under real names is essential. For botrings, creating multiple fake identities is a breeze, allowing them to bypass Know
Thank you for your input and I agree with most of what you say except "Everything else is detailes and does not mean much". Lets try to have an open minded discussion regarding this very broad and wide spreading problem, and be open to other peoples' ideas. Any 1/1000 great idea can add a lot of value to our community so lets encourage everyone to pull their weight
I think in terms of HH disclosure, you can download HH from most legit sites though its not always with all hole cards available. I am personally indifferent as to the bodog or stars style hole cards but I do understand the concerns that some players have over what MDA can do when all hole cards are available.
RE: WebCam
I think there are multiple sites doing this in a very minor way against potential cheaters. For example, I know that WPN will mandate use of webcam to watch you grind and table manage in real time if you get reported for doing something shady.
I think there are some potential issues that could arise
1) Issues as to real life privacy if use of web cam is mandated - who would have access to it; how is it kept; will it be stored, if so, for how long?
2) Might be a barrier of entry (esp recs) for some people coming into poker - they may not want to 'look stupid' on webcam, esp. as begginers etc.
Just some food for thought for further discussion
Surprised this didn't get more attention. Is there any counterargument? (Reshuffling folded cards)
Of course there is. Its a skill to estimate which cards are dead and which are live, especially in games like Omaha hi lo, but also in stupid holdem, it is a thing.
Reshuffling dead cards is an absolutely horrible idea, and that some folks who even post in a poker Forum never seem to even have thought about that is boggling my mind...
I think a big part of the problem is that there are no real perceived consequences for cheating. If people caught cheating were regularly sent to prison there would be a lot less people willing to risk it.
For the most part this is out of players' control, but some sort of black list of known cheats could help?
I've heard Nevada has something similar that's shared amongst casinos behind the scenes. Maybe we need a public list that is shared all over the world? Not sure, just thinking out loud here and trying to contribute another idea.
It could be limited to proven cheats, and maybe someone's name would drop off the list after five years or something, to allow for the chance of reformed cheats changing their ways and being given a second chance. It could even be shared between live and online venues.
If you got caught cheating and couldn't play on mainstream sites or in casinos anywhere in the world that could put a real dent in the problem.
It would just be important to make sure the standards are clear, and that only truly "proven" cheats get added to the list. I would be a little concerned about innocent people getting blackballed for baseless accusations.
There's no technical limitations preventing companies from preventing cheating. A bunch of dimwit poker players 'Brainstorming' won't help. The truth is most poker companies operate illegally or in grey markets. The best we can do as consumers is to vote with your money and don't play on unregulated sites. If you don't have access to legal, regulated games -- get involved in local politics, move somewhere that supports your lifestyle, or don't play.
If we keep giving the shady sites money, they'
the idea of moving US politics on an issue that fundamentally doesn't matter, when US politics can't move on issues that do matter, is a bit lofty lol
generally tho I agree a forum thread isn't gonna move the needle, but its 2+2 is anyone really expecting it to be productive? does it have to be?
