VIEW: People are too dependent on solvers
People are putting in a lot of work with solvers but aren’t grasping the rationale behind the solver recommendations. It seems everyone makes a play because it’s “solver approved” or “what the solver says” instead of considering WHY the solver says that.
This severely limits people as it is impossible to memorize every solver approved play you might encounter, but understanding the rationale for why the solver recommends it affords you the flexibility and adaptability necessary for a winning session.
No phones would be great.
No people would be better.
Just a table and 9 chairs.
What's the point of making a rule if that rule is uninforceable?
You cannot enforce a no-RTA-between-hands rule unless you make it a no-phones-at-all rule; and the latter is simply not going to happen.
I don't get this point of view. There are tons of things that are hard to enforce and not allowed in all facets of life. You just need to make the chance of getting caught times the punishment big enough to disencourage it, not to completely erradicate it with 100% effectiveness.
Look at the bright side: a clown who is looking at a preflop chart between hands is not paying attention to the action, is missing out on live reads.
People go on extra tilt when they make the “right play” and then they lose
So yea go ahead and get more information to tilt yourself with. Not to mention they usually input incorrectly anyway
I'm always periodically checking my subs to poker software when i'm out and about, for reassurance. How else would you know it hasn't been cancelled? can you imagine? What an absolute mare. Being unsubscribed without knowing about it? C'mon
What's the point of making a rule if that rule is uninforceable?
You cannot enforce a no-RTA-between-hands rule unless you make it a no-phones-at-all rule; and the latter is simply not going to happen.
Just make phones reasonably in view of others so you don't get a Postle crotch look situation. The difference between normal phone usage and plugging **** into a solver is pretty easy to tell
Downside has to be 100x the upside for banning phones at the table
I'm surprised people try to use solvers at the table at all. How stupid do you have to be? Then again we are talking about poker players...
If you have to use a solver in a live game, you are probably in the wrong game.
I’m surprised at those poll results and I assume if there was to be a ban, people wouldn’t be so thrilled to support it.
I agree that something needs to be done but completely banning phones at the table means no Spotify or other music service, no texting your friends or tweeting when you just doubled up or take a hit to your stack, no watching PokerGo between hands, and no playing online poker while playing live.
Not to mention people would resort to using their watches or smart glasses to circumvent any rule directed specifically at phones.
Shocking
I just don't understand the mind set of any poker player not wanting phones, solvers, etc. banned only during tourney play. They are part of the problem and most likely the ones doing the cheating themselves, or they are so addicted to their phone they are slaves to it lol.
As another poster mentioned, you are never going to be able to completely eradicate the majority of things where rules are in place. That doesn't mean you don't put rules in place for the betterment of the community as a whole and then enforce them the best you can. You continue to adapt , reassess, and move forward the best you can. If you make the punishment harsh enough, 95% of the cheaters will think twice, especially those that rely on playing a good amount of tourneys, and a few will continue to try. I guarantee if you make it an immediate DQ from the tourney you are playing, including forfeiting any payouts if you are in the money at that time, and a permanent ban from any future tourneys for that brand/tour, the vast majority would stop. Even better if several of the large tours could ever come together on an issue and ban that player from all tours.
And yes, phones should be banned from tourney play period. Not hard to do for all of those complaining about it. Your phone can be on you, just stored away on you out of view. Listening to music would not suffer, almost all headphones allow you to skip ahead/behind, have volume control, etc. You may take your phone out on occasion to switch playlists, etc., but you have to check with the dealer and declare what you are doing, and have your phone on the table in front of everyone else, do what you need to do, and replace it. Sorry, everything else should be illegal during a tourney, especially texting. Texting can easy violate the OPPH anyway, so I never understood why that was ever allowed in the first place.
If you need to reply to a text, make a call, etc., you leave the tournament floor, go to the bathroom, etc., do what you need to do and then come back. Again, you will never be able to stop it all or control what a player does away from the table. However, casinos have cameras everywhere, so you let all players know that if they are caught using any solvers or electronic assistance while you are still in the tourney, you will be banned. You will have plenty of other players helping to keep an eye out as well. A formal complaint can be made by any player in the tourney if they see it away from the table, and investigation can be done, and if no conclusive evidence, a warning and now that player may think twice about doing it again.
It can absolutely be done and for those whining about how can we live without our phones, poker players were just fine without phones and being able to communicate with others while playing for far, far longer than they have been able to.
TLDR - Bans phones, except for music play only, leave tourney floor for anything else. Perma-ban offenders. Stop whining that we can't, your the problem not the solution.
I just don't understand the mind set of any poker player not wanting phones, solvers, etc. banned only during tourney play. They are part of the problem and most likely the ones doing the cheating themselves, or they are so addicted to their phone they are slaves to it lol.
As another poster mentioned, you are never going to be able to completely eradicate the majority of things where rules are in place. That doesn't mean you don't put rules in place for the betterment of the community as a whol
This is a ridiculous take. People have to “declare” to the dealers that they’re changing their song playlist and they have to do it in front of everyone? Get outta here with that. That would be incredibly problematic and impractical.
And to say if someone disagrees with you, they must be cheating or addicted to their phones is equally ridiculous.
Maybe you shouldn’t have such a black and white view of the situation and consider the possibility that there’s a better or more sane/practical solution that hasn’t been mentioned yet.
Besides, your “solution” wouldn’t solve anything because all someone would have to do is stand up from the table and do whatever they want to do on their phones between hands.
The reality is, poker players and society have all grown accustomed to having their phones with them all the time. It’s just how life is now. Suggesting we go back to how Puggy used to play just to stop the handful of moron cheaters out there isn’t the solution.
Frankly, I’d rather see some sort of jamming type software implemented before just outright banning them.
But I guarantee there’s a better way that hasn’t been mentioned yet.
I think the only thing they can realistically do is put the rule on the books about not using your phone unless on breaks and to have dealers have the authority to enforce the rule if they observe someone violating it.
No phones in events over $5k
Ace upmy Slv's take is so unutterably wrongheaded that even the usually-wrong Dr. Meh gets it right.
I mean, really. The whole situation is a textbook example of moral panic.
There is a rule in place: if you refer to your phone in any way once you have looked at your cards, your hand is dead. Enforce the rule.
The response to a clown looking at charts or solves or whatever between hands is to say nothing, and then take them to a part of the game tree where standard canned GTO Wizard solves are useless, and hang them out to dry. Or take advantage of their huge ICM punts when they are working with chip EV.
Ace upmy Slv's take is so unutterably wrongheaded that even the usually-wrong Dr. Meh gets it right.
I mean, really. The whole situation is a textbook example of moral panic.
There is a rule in place: if you refer to your phone in any way once you have looked at your cards, your hand is dead. Enforce the rule.
The response to a clown looking at charts or solves or whatever between hands is to say nothing, and then take them to a part of the game tree where standard canned GTO Wizard solves are usel
Uh oh. If crazy Alan who personifies a unique combination of lacking both common sense AND critical thinking skills agrees, I may have to rethink my position on this. That’s not good company to be with.
A Russian nit, Brazilian AGGtard, and the Lord of Israeli whale donks walk into a bar…
But seriously, show me the solver profitably adjusting to your random table draw on the fly, then I’ll buy one of your tinfoil hats.
This hasn't gotten enough love given it's accuracy.
It is like going for your driving test, getting in the car with the instructor, putting on your seat belt, starting up the car, and then opening "The Rules of the Road" book that summarizes the states driving laws to figure out how to pull out into traffic.
If the opponents are tough enough that you need to consult a solver then you are effed anyway. If they are weaker than you, why do you need to consult a solver?
I don't disagree with the idea of a phone ban, but it will be much harder than we think. Can players look at charts away from the table? Then throw in smart watches. Are smart watches banned from the table as well? Also how about ear buds? How hard is it to make an app to read a chart that can be heard with earphones? Just press the skip ahead/rewind button on the earbuds until your app gets the chart you need and then delay while it plays out.
no electronics tournaments may see an entrance
Or we can wait for the panicking idiots to calm down and continue with the status quo.
Ace upmy Slv's take is so unutterably wrongheaded that even the usually-wrong Dr. Meh gets it right.
I mean, really. The whole situation is a textbook example of moral panic.
There is a rule in place: if you refer to your phone in any way once you have looked at your cards, your hand is dead. Enforce the rule.
The response to a clown looking at charts or solves or whatever between hands is to say nothing, and then take them to a part of the game tree where standard canned GTO Wizard solves are usel
Yeah, I am off but Dr Meh wants freaking 'jamming software;, lol. You guys are brilliant.
Using your phone briefly while not in a hand with it in clear view of the the entire table accommodates the majority of people, including the ones whining about 'what about my music man BS'. Ban them completely then for all I care, as I haven't played tourneys in a long while. I am just tired of all of the cheating in poker and poker player's laissez faire attitude about it as if it is never going to affect them. The majority of poker players won't take action on anything.
They made announcement.
