View: Beginners should spend 100% of their time on study

He should be guided by thoughts

A coach at nl5... GTO software at nl5...

Why even start playing NLHE these days, especially when you have no talent, at all?

Dont think players like these will still keep playing after a few years, even if they start winning by re-producing solver outputs all day.

I think the old school way of thinking was to play more than you study. That was before we had the tools and data we have now. I definitely think reversing what his “coach” recommended is the right way nowadays.

No way, playing/learning pool tendencies is way more important, micros is still easily bearable without worrying to much about gto

Everyone is different. What worked for you doesn't have to work for you friend.

It depends what your goals are. Your route of studying most of the time could be most optimal if your goal is to beat higher stakes as quickly as possible, assuming you have a superhuman ability to concentrate.

For most of us we enjoy actually playing poker, and likely couldn't focus well enough to study solver outputs for more than an hour a day anyway. At 5 NL it's not really about the money, it's about getting experience and building habits.

Also some of us start out playing recreationally, studying more for the challenge than anything, and eventually get to where we're making some money from the game .

But honestly if you're totally new to poker in 2024, and your goal is to use it as a vehicle to grind and make money, you're probably in the wrong game.

There is a natural flow to the game that can't be learned from a book.

I think that is the correct amount. I don't know how one could get good by study alone. Where exactly would you even start? I like to play and see my trouble spots and then study those. Going through GTO wizard as an absolute beginner would be overwhelming if you haven't played much imo. I've designed my own preflop charts using GTO wizard and excel spread sheets, but to test my memory on them I had to play the game. Now I have my standard charts memorized and can deviate according to who I'm playing.

Knowing the pool tendencies and focusing on specific player leaks is where the most profit is going to be made. I guess that is what MDA basically is so maybe that is what was useful for you. I think with some great exploits you can actually make more profit than a player who is a more rounded studied player who knows theory well. There are a lot of spots where you can use a suboptimal bet size or betting line that people are unfamiliar with and make a profit that way. After all, you are playing against other humans.

I believe that you should approach the Holy Grail of poker of learning simplifications of GTO bit by bit, but that will be a long process that will never fully be completed. It is just too complex to learn it all. So I go deep on certain areas, but develop heuristics for other spots that are okay yet not perfect. I do those heuristics just so that I don't get destroyed. For example, for the vast majority of flops I can continuation bet really small and not get absolutely destroyed. Even on boards where it is not warranted. However, I do like to go deep on some flop textures such as the AKx board. Apparently on these flops you can actually use an overbet sizing and that is pretty cool. If I was to try and study the correct lines on every flop it would just take too damn long. So for that reason, you just got to get into the game and play and just intuit it a bit.

I think it is really impressive that you were able to just study and become a winner just like that. I don't think that is easy or typical. When you studied for two months, how many hours a day did you spend on studying?

Most important thing is to have fun.. I have seen guys have a lot of success in either end of the spectrum. In general study is and will be a odd term. Some guys don't study a lot necessarily, but they talk a lot of poker and pick up from it.

Ideally you want to go through waves where you enjoy one or the other aka having fun. Some guys just play heaps and suck ass and others study a lot but never learn to implement stuff or never have their strategies tested enough to see how people will react.

I believe game have a lot to do with luck

I think a decent amount of play to get experience and to be able to actually apply the concepts you have been learning in real time.

I for sure didnt study enough but 100% study doesnt make sense either imo.

NLH games are seriously ****ed these days. I splashed around a bit in nl25 on party and in the fast-forward games I was playing quite a few accounts that played an GTO approach. Pretty sure it was bots but yeah even penny stakes these days are ****ed.

The absolute last thing a beginner should do is to learn how to be a NLHE hudbot. They should learn to play other games that haven't been completely killed by the OP's type of approach, and how to exploit the few bad players that are left.

Can anyone winning at NL50+ weigh in on this?

I’m very surprised how negative a lot of these comments seem to be, especially considering the state of the game. I agree with bots being everywhere, but there are still plenty of fish about!

People want to improve, what’s wrong with that? Just like in chess, some players might not have natural talent but drive to improve >> natural talent (especially in a game like poker where so much is unintuitive)

Would you not recommend learning pool tendencies via MDA?

Around 8-10 hours a day (excessive I know)

I played a month ago on party, if you want a hint they 3/4-bet you way below theory, so raise more and call those bets less. You should be folding even JJ to 4-bets

solid first post

View: 100% of us were having a better time before the likes of OP came along

You're right, he should play 100% of the time.

That's a lot of time. When you focused on the 12 nodes of the game tree what were the exact positions that you used, was it like this?

SRP:
1) LJ vs BU
2) LJ vs BB
3) BU vs LJ
4) BB vs LJ

3Bet:
5) LJ vs SB
6) LJ vs HJ
7) SB vs LJ
8) HJ vs LJ

4Bet:
9) LJ vs SB
10) LJ vs HJ
11) SB vs LJ
12) HJ vs LJ

I'd tell him to go to the local casino, grab a beer, and sit down and have fun at whatever game he thinks is interesting to play within his budget. The game is supposed to be fun and social, the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.

All the way back in time? Like to 2003 when I was grinding free rolls in 7th grade? Wasn’t much to study back then

Now, yeah the only way to learn the game is lots of study. Probably like min 50/50 study and play, although I’d say maybe closer to 70 study in the beginning. But I certainly wouldn’t put that effort into a game as dead at NLH. Plo or don’t even bother

Honestly, I’d focus on 2-7 lowball. Love that game but wish I was more well-versed in it.