Seems like movement away from NLHE

They suck for the house because less hands per hour = less rake but PLO8 is very fun live and has a good gamble atmosphere. Just put a time charge on the table who cares.

I'm all for time charges in every game. Pot rake rewards nits way too much.

I just think you get so few hands per hour it's not fun for the players.

Yes, but the gamble fun per hand is through the roof.

That is a very simplistic take that’s usually only half right. Sure the best players love mix games because they will put more thought into getting competent/good/great at each game, and even many opponents that are competent/tough in Holdem will have leaks in some of the mix games. And during the WSOP esp in Rio I’m sure many locals try to orient the mix games in their favor.

But in my experience mix game selection is almost entirely driven by the big action players. Mid-stakes LHE died at my local room because the biggest gamblers fell in love with mix games, so now I have to learn a bewildering amount of odd games, and the esoteric special rules the floor occasionally adds at their request. If a 40 Holdem is all that’s going they will play but are noticeably irritated/bored at having to play it and will bounce to start a 150 mix at any opportunity.

The biggest rule in high stakes games I’ve seen everywhere is that whales make the game so they make the rules. If the rich guy who everyone loves playing with wants to play mix, the mix will only be games they at least accept, if not outright chose. And if they don’t like you, prepare to be shut out of the game in many subtle or even direct ways, depending upon whether it’s a public casino or private home game.

Ugh, no they don’t and the debate (imo) on this is more or less over

The vast majority of the games in the mix (80%+) have been around for over a decade. Talking about 2-7TD, Badeucey, Super Stud, Archie, Badugi, Razz Deucey, limit big O etc. (These are typical games at limits such as 20/40 and 40/80, higher limits if anything might play more traditional games)

These games will comprise 80-90% if not more of mix next year, the “tourists” have an entire year to think about them. But they’ve already had more than ten.

Dramaha is newest but it’s also most popular. Dramaha 2-7 is well received and in mix because people really like it, not to trick tourists. And it’s not exactly like learning how to fly the space shuttle

People still don't understand
Whales and what they want are what's important.

What I want or what any reg wants means absolutely ****ing nothing.
Play what the guy wants who is sustaining the game.

In private app games etc there is a very healthy percentage of non NLHE getting played
People want to play other types of games

I think people that run live games just see the non texas holdem stuff as a hassle
They have to train dealers and certain games (PLO) can bust quickly if there's not players that are willing to rebuy a few times or a strong rail

I live in a US state that doesnt have any legal live poker
Have started to throw together a spreadsheet with data from poker atlas to identify cities that run live plo consistently (somewhere for a quick holiday with a bit of plo)
There really isnt that many places

Point out this mystery man not playing what a whale wants to play

I don't know about PLO8/BigO

you need good/fast dealers and the nut pedlers just get all the money

Be careful with PA data. I am sure it is great for rooms that use it for list signups. But for rooms they are just reporting on that likely use Bravo, PA data is often horrible and vastly out of date at best.

You would be better served using both PA and Bravo to see what games are actually running.

thanks for the heads up :-)

Yeah, PLO8 / PL Big O have a problem in that fish playing lose ranges get killed. Whereas, in PLO high, you can sort of get away with playing loose.

In the 80s and 90s, it was almost all limit games because the fish would not get quickly clobbered in them.

Similarly, now with the demise of high stakes open NLHE games. Fish don't want to play a bunch of GTO nerds.

In terms of public high stakes games, there is more PLO than NLHE now and the highest games are still mixed games.

I guess you have never played live poker.

Probably shouldn’t have to clarify but meant the thread

Is there anyone in here saying that a whale shouldn’t be catered to, at least to a reasonable extent?

I was about to say the same thing.
It should be obvious but to way too many people it's not.

It was a Captain Obvious rant

But there’s also shades of grey in situations. We can get into details if anyone likes

After spending a significant amount of time in Vegas this year during WSOP, its no doubt, that at least right now, PLO during series is very profitable at the 1-2-5 and 5-5-Rock at tables.

Games were definitely better this year than the last few years. Still better outside of wsop.

NLHE is a skill game, PLO is degenerate gambling so yeah I can see why whales would prefer the latter.

Yep degenerate gambling. Very scary. Small edges only. Stay away!

then how come Phil Galfond was able to win $5 million + online playing HUPLO if there is no skill? Wouldnt his luck have had eventually run out and at best breakeven?

PS.
Same goes for Omaha4rollz. How come he has not gone broke? But instead keeps crushing year after year playing 6max and short handed PLO. Pretty sure his winnings are in the millions.

^^^^ irony deaf

Played about 12 hours of 1/2 PLO at Aria over the weekend. Games were good. The misreg to my left kept telling me how horrible the table was because there were a few rocks. I got 2 outered for a 6 buy-in pot, didn't win a single bomb pot, and split/lost every all in where I was ahead. Probably walked way with 10 buy ins of EV down 600$

Fun times

ok...