Cheating In The Main Event? Was Tamayo's WSOP ME Win Unethical?
Doug Polk has released a video showing Tamayo's rail clearly using a laptop for assistance. You can also see Joe McKeeha
They certainly arent victims, their horse won and Dom clearly doesn't care about the public perception. More like anglers who are taking advantage of rules that arent clear, and trying to squeeze every drop of EV. Everyone know anglers are scummy but you cant do anything about it except fix the rule that they are abusing.
Tamayo may be a victim of his friends'/backers' greed though. I think he was in a tough spot and his only option would have been to ignore his rail the entire time, which
So now the fact that people might not be present during a verbal announcement means the rules aren't applicable to them? Seems like a strong defense.
Apparently Dom asked a WSOP official about it and got a OK, but I have no clue if thats true.
There is a 0% chance Dom asked a WSOP official if he could run solvers and charts and relay that information to Tamayo in between hands.
So now the fact that people might not be present during a verbal announcement means the rules aren't applicable to them? Seems like a strong defense.
When the written rules differ, it is a reasonable defense. If you travelled for the Main and got there to reg on Day 2 and all you had were the posted written rules, then you would have no clue what they announced at the start of Day1. Hell, if you are in the registration line at the start of Day 1, then you probably didnt hear it either.
And what if you dont speak English? This obv doesn apply here, but it needs to be considered generally. You can have written rules translated for you, but not a one time announcement at the start.
But I am done going back and forth over who gets the larger slice of blame pie. I am only interested in preventing it from happening in the future. We obviously agree its a bad look, and public shaming is appropriate, although they seem to lack shame, but no way they DQ Tamayo or anything like that.
Maybe the most disappointing aspect of this situation is the absolute crickets from Jack Effel. As the WSOP TD, he should be publicly addressing this, even if just posting on X.
I guess so long as CBS/PokerGo pay their TV rights contracts, he doesn’t give a damn what happens at the FT….
When the written rules differ, it is a reasonable defense. If you travelled for the Main and got there to reg on Day 2 and all you had were the posted written rules, then you would have no clue what they announced at the start of Day1. Hell, if you are in the registration line at the start of Day 1, then you probably didnt hear it either.
It doesn't seem to conflict with any written rule(s) but add to them. So I would argue it's not a reasonable defense at all.
Will kassoufs strategy was to get everyone so riled up that they started playing worse and technically what he did was not against the rules. I’m sure most people would find this to be quite effective yet no one else bothers to copy his antics even with millions on the line. Why?
I’m sure it would even be +ev to smell like dogshit at the table and pick your nose every 5 minutes, it would certainly put people off their game. Are people idiots for not doing this too?
You are insinuating something but you are not stating it, because once you solidify your statement it would be very easy to poke holes in it. If you answer your own question you'll see what I mean.
Everything JB said is 100% right. The manner in which hyper successful people push boundaries comes in many shapes and forms.
Yeah. It what they did is also probably illegal in the state of NV, and clearly unethical and unusual. So it's ridiculous to defend them saying they missed an announcement.
Like, if the speed limit drops from 65 to 35, if there isn't a sign you have a defense.
If you get on the road and do not see a speed limit sign and just start going 125, good luck arguing that you didn't see a sign saying this was illegal.
Tamayo talks: As controversy rages, the WSOP Main Event champ breaks his silence
His comments just make it worse in my opinion. Worse enough is hat someone should directly ask the NGCB. I am 1500 miles away and was same during ME but still might call
His comments just make it worse in my opinion. Worse enough is hat someone should directly ask the NGCB. I am 1500 miles away and was same during ME but still might call
I mean, that stuff wasn't under my control. My job was to play. Joe and Dom were giving me advice. I didn't tell them to bring anything. You know, whatever was on there was on there. My job was to play. You have to be pretty narrow-minded when you're playing. All the other external stuff is just wasted energy.
😀.
This is why lawyers tell you to shut up.
Maybe the most disappointing aspect of this situation is the absolute crickets from Jack Effel. As the WSOP TD, he should be publicly addressing this, even if just posting on X.
I guess so long as CBS/PokerGo pay their TV rights contracts, he doesn’t give a damn what happens at the FT….
They don't know what to do and want it to go away
I’ll go with they just don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Although they will probably make a stronger rule next year. Just not immediately as to make it seem reactionary and make it seem like it was a big deal.
I don’t think they are tossing and turning at night hoping it goes away. The guy who finished in 2nd doesn’t even care.
Sigh, if Lena had just won like he was supposed to…
They certainly arent victims, their horse won and Dom clearly doesn't care about the public perception. More like anglers who are taking advantage of rules that arent clear, and trying to squeeze every drop of EV. Everyone know anglers are scummy but you cant do anything about it except fix the rule that they are abusing.
Tamayo may be a victim of his friends'/backers' greed though. I think he was in a tough spot and his only option would have been to ignore his rail the entire time, which
Thank you for your response. I DO agree that WSOP needs to get its act together and immediately on this subject.
I do NOT agree that Tamayo was in any kind of tough spot. Someone posted screen caps from 2015 McKeehen FT and guess who was sitting on the rail, headphones on and laptop open? Tamayo. These guys are an organized crew and they are all equally culpable. According to the LV Review article, Tamayo specifically thanked Dom and Joe right after, saying he wouldn’t have won without them.
I don’t think it’s worse because Griff is an amateur. I agree that it would be just as scummy against Lena. The point is that each of them, individually, already has a massive skill and experience advantage over Griff, the rec. Yet they’re still collaborating against him, using solver, etc. while he’s just sitting there playing like he’s in a daily at his local card room. The optics are just horrific because it’s the Griffs of the community who make the WSOP go by building the prize pools. The optics are much different if these vampires are pulling this **** against Lena, on of the greatest players in history. It’s JUST as disgusting, you’re right, but it’s less poignant for amateurs to see a pro getting angled. Just my opinion but this has become such a big story precisely because they pulled this **** against a total rec who was sort of in there battling courageously.
Anyway, I appreciate you engaging. I think it would help everyone if you could make clear in each post that you think what they did was wrong. I’m sure it’s annoying to have to do that, and it’s your right not to, but many of us didn’t realize you weren’t defending what they were doing. It read that way without the context from your other posts that you believe what they did was ethically wrong.
Considering the "official strategy sponsor" is GTOWizard; who houses an array of tools that basically promote this type of cheating, what's that say about PokerGo?
Negreanu (biased) dodged the question like its nbd. I see an unethical conflict of interest.
Not to mention The Lodge has better production and they operate out of a strip mall (+ it's free.)
Considering the "official strategy sponsor" is GTOWizard; who houses an array of tools that basically promote this type of cheating, what's that say about PokerGo?
Negreanu (biased) dodged the question like its nbd. I see an unethical conflict of interest.
Not to mention The Lodge has better production and they operate out of a strip mall (+ it's free.)
It’s says nothing about PokerGo. PokerGo doesn’t “cheat” people, people “cheat” people.
Cheat people should only cheat cheat people
Well what i was getting at was at one part of the tourney Tamaya decided to have his hood up, at the same time we see the flash of white around his ear lobe. At the end we see them concealing something with the shady looking guy looking highly suspect
Out of curiosity, do you know when this supposed white object is visible? I've seen the photo floating around but just as many people say it's his earlobe.
When Tamaya had the near 3/1 chip lead he had his hood down, then after Griff doubled up he has the hood back on...but this is only highlights not real time footage and im a conspiracy nut 😃
For anyone interested, this moment is roughly the 1:47:40 on the PokerGo VOD. Griff announces all-in on the J♦ turn, Tamayo drops his chips on his cards, pulls off his hood, then says "whoa... what a screwed up turn." Tamayo must have put his hood back on during the replay of Griff reaction (1:50:47 to 1:51:00) so there really isn't much to infer either way about the moment Tamayo's hood went back on his head.
Tamayo continues to have the hood up until the KT vs 77 hand. He pulls it off his head as he walked toward his rail at the 2:09:49 mark. For what it's worth, there is also a shot at 2:57:51 in the VOD when Tamayo's hoodie widens to reveal his ears, and there is no white object there. The earlobe and helix are both visible.
Anyway, I keep seeing in numerous places that the Airpod thing has been debunked, and I can't say I've looked much into that, either.
I watched the whole HU match. Griff played competently, definitely not fishy. Griff was 3!ing light a lot more and Tamayo was almost always folding to 3!s. Tamayo may have played better than Griff, but there wasn't a big difference. Tamayo played very by the book, and seemed like the type who would use charts.
When the written rules differ, it is a reasonable defense. If you travelled for the Main and got there to reg on Day 2 and all you had were the posted written rules, then you would have no clue what they announced at the start of Day1. Hell, if you are in the registration line at the start of Day 1, then you probably didnt hear it either.
And what if you dont speak English? This obv doesn apply here, but it needs to be considered generally. You can have written rules translated for you, but n
Wsop should have done a better job of
1) clearly stating this wasn't allowed
2) stopped it right away at the final table
With that said these 3 were all grinding all summer. So they had no "ignorance" defense.
Wsop should have done a better job of
1) clearly stating this wasn't allowed
2) stopped it right away at the final table
With that said these 3 were all grinding all summer. So they had no "ignorance" defense.
It's also quite telling that somehow to over 100k unique tournament players the announcement and the rules were quite ''clear'' yet not to these 3 guys, and a handful of people in this thread.
I have a question. When some one is reading from a cellphone it's easy for those sitting next to them to see the screen even if they are not really trying to do so. These guys had an open laptop on the rail. If another spectator sitting a few rows back saw something fishy wouldn't they be morally obligated to report the alleged cheating?
It's also quite telling that somehow to over 100k unique tournament players the announcement and the rules were quite ''clear'' yet not to these 3 guys, and a handful of people in this thread.
Exactly. They just don't give a **** about ethics or the rules.
If this tournament was online they'd literally be playing the end stages for Tamayo.
