WPN ''Steals'' more than 50k in rewards

Could it be they found the large pots with middling holdings between the stable-mates suspicious? Looks to me like the pot was intentionally juiced for the rewards.

no rules at ACR. your mistake was slaving away 10hrs/day all year when you could've just deployed a slightly less profitable bot and re-deployed after they ban you.

i imagine phil nagy makes weekly sweeps of accounts nearing top-tier elite status and laughs as he confiscates all their bonuses

**** stables and all the players in them. You guys ruin poker. I'm glad this happened to you.

There was a phase maybe a month or two ago where they were aggressively banning players indiscriminately, myself being one of them. Virtually all of the players who were supposedly innocent were eventually given back access to their accounts. Being in a stable obviously complicated the situation but I totally see how it's virtually impossible to avoid other regs from the same stable while playing the volume that you do. And although you're seemingly playing normally against each other, what exactly is stopping you from doing things like card sharing? Not accusing, but how would you go about proving this beyond a reasonable doubt?

I played with you guys all a bit this year, especially april-may, and noticed in summer you were all gone. I could only assume you had decided to game select elsewhere, but this explanation makes a lot more sense.
It was obvious to me that you were all legit and easily distinguishable from bots by lines taken and, obviously, country location.
But yeah this pretty obviously bullshit and it doesn't even make sense what they are saying. 'working towards a common goal of achieving the highest loyalty rewards possible' in what sense is that a common goal? the accounts are individual and the rewards would be accumulated individually, there is no multiplier effect to being from the same stable or country or anything.
Meanwhile the bots like ci0by and acquiton were winning leaderboards every week. What did they have in common? one word: kazhakstan!!! lol
What a f'in joke.
Have you been able to get in touch with some of the high up guys, phil nagy, rob kuhn?

WPN is super shady and horribly mis-managed.

My account was suspended there some 3 or so years ago after playing a couple hundred thousands hands. Most of my volume was in the 200 and 600 blitz games, with some selective volume at 5knl. The email claimed I was behaving unethically, citing bumhunting, collusion some other nonsense. More than 98% of my volume was in the blitz games which are of course not bumhuntable, and needless to say I wasn't colluding. I then had some very ambiguous exchanges with support and was only able to get my account re-instated with the help of my agent (which took over a month iirc). They also gave me a blanket warning on reinstation saying something like 'any further breaches will result in immediate ban and loss of funds'. Now what I was doing that may have been flagged was searching the odd player on a tracking site, and I expect maybe they saw this through illegal screen-capturing and cited all this nonsense so as to not divulge the real reason. Either way this experience left a bad taste in my mouth and a lot of distrust towards this company, so I immediately withdrew and haven't played there since.

Would urge caution in dealing with any site on the WPN network.

Not to derail, but do you think there's actually a real possibility of sites like this recording your screen while you play? Pretty frightening.

So basically any player who sat in that blitz pool for the last 11 months, would have played greater than 50% of their volume against 3 players who shared the same bankroll?

Even if you were not botting (which I find kind of sus, given the quality of the play), that's still a massive conflict of interest.

There is so many different ways to collude, when everyone is getting paid out of the same bankroll.

My take from reading this was the WPN security is trying harder than i thought. Sucks to lose out but not suprised this happened.

Playing high volume while part of a stable. This could happen. They let you withdraw your money.

You guys clearly had some tools open you played better than 98% of the HS regs that doesnt make any sense. All the high volume regs Spakuta Igla Pyjamasparty etc were sure you guys were bots or using tools how you play.

"I play for a stable called Metagame"

When you are playing "for" group of players in the same games, at the same tables, is that not collusion ?

That would be something beyond a "shared bankroll" as soon as you and a stablemate sat in the same cash game or even the same MTT, should you end up at the same tournament table.

At a minimum, might your play at the same tables indicate a high likelihood your "stable" was sharing information on cards ?

Just a realistic, unsympathetic take on your story here.

Thats because im actually a highstakes player, I just decided do go for highvolume this year because of the lack of games ruuning, bodog was full of bots, gg with abusive rake, games on stars were dead, just because I was playing blitz200 im supposed to play bad ?

My nickname at gg is Pedro Toledo , you can see me playing the HS tables there all day , but anyway , that was not the reason of the ban, acusing us of colluding just because we played at the same time and for the same stake is just absurd, they have no proof of that , UrsoBranco was the reg that i was winning the most, by far , what kind of collusion is that ?

so would you share your complete database to some Hs players and they go over your databse of all hands you played and we complain them with many tools rta colluting etc ? you know you didnt play fair so good that you guys got banned. But you could proof us all wrong you 3 guys.

Matt Marinelli here. I did some coaching for both Frederico and Pedro in the middle of the year as a part of a brief stint I did for Metagame.

These guys are both totally legitimate sicko grinders, and I find WPN's decision to ban them appalling. It was inspiring to see how much volume these guys played, and I know it was devastating for them to each get banned for collusion when I never saw any evidence of that.

I reviewed each of their databases multiple times and talked hands with them, and I had no inkling of anything suspicious whatsoever. Metagame is also a totally standard CFP and the players have no financial interest in each other, nor is their any social pressure put on them to do anything. Most medium-to-large size CFPs are pretty simple and straightforward; you get some package of study material, a stake, 1-on-1 coaching at some interval, and get dropped into a discord with a bunch of strangers. From there: good luck and try to win money. There is no "shared bankroll".

I don't know what WPN saw or what influenced their judgement to ban these guys, but I saw nothing out of the ordinary from my vantage point.

Me and another Spanish player were also banned our nicknames were MrEmpiriko and KaitoKiddo. While they did not give any specific reason, I suspect that is because they think we are doing some kind of **** like this. Say gl to your account. I ha e tried to send tons of mails. I spoke to the WPN security chief which is clueless. All they know is that they have a security problem and they ban every single account they think it is suspicious. At least I managed to get the rewards but I was not a rb player.

We play pokerstars under nicknames TanNKkzZ and TheSalinator among other sites.

Good luck with your situation, at least I hope you get the rewards! You can contact me in case you need something

It is a shame this site has good traffic they do the worst possible job

Obv they have financal interest in sharing their action??? Second of all they started everytime the same and quittet the same. And all regs i spoke to all agreed these guys/bots play really unhuman in everyway and using some rta Al stuff most likely.

How can ACR be so tough that playing with RTA gives you a 0 bb/100 win rate, assuming they're telling the truth about the win rate?

Let me start by saying that I am affiliated with ACR, and so will have (somewhat conscious) bias. I have played on ACR for years, and played long before I had any affiliation with the site. I also sent in a video report to security regarding the 200NL Blitz pools and potential collusion / bot like behaviour around the time you were playing. Whilst I have a contact for the head of security, they cannot discuss any investigations, even with those working for or affiliated with ACR / WPN

[QUOTE=NIZZA]There is a bunch of other nicknames I suspected some of them stop playing at some point but some were still active till the date I was playing there. Some examples CkaNNonBaLL , KimkardashFan , Impermanente , hamipuhyle. By this time, I had already played around 500k hands or more and decided to keep doing it since I was running close to 0ev bb at that point.[/QUOTE]

These accounts were (I assume) banned around the time you were playing. As far as I can tell, they haven't played in years, nor have I seen any other bot like / potential collusive behaviour playing in 200-1000NL cash games (albeit I play low volume)

I remember playing a lot with you a while back and had you reg tagged fwiw, did not suspect anything untoward when playing vs you.

[QUOTE=NIZZA]Its looks almost like a joke ! The regular biluzin won the most money from Urso branco , winning almost double of the amount of the second reg. How Could be possible that we were soft playing this way? we have also sent lots of hand examples with insane bluffs one vs another and even crazier hero calls.[/QUOTE]

Not that I am accusing either of you in this instance, but if anything this is more incriminating evidence than exculpatory. Being in the same stable you could theoretically share the same bankroll or be chopping funds, meaning two things

1.) You could be squeezing players out of multi way pots, thereby increasing the pot size and winnings against each other
2.) You could "juice" pots to increase rake and hence increase your points towards rakeback when needed

Again I just want to re-iterate that I am not accusing either of you in this instance, just want to make that clear

From my understanding of it all, ACR are effectively using their right to refusal of service, hence why you were allowed to withdraw whatever funds you had in your accounts. Even if you weren't colluding in any way, just the fact that the three of you "share the same bankroll" gives enough POTENTIAL motive to collude, and may even lead you to play hands subconsciously in a different manner

Just my two cents. I also like to defend ACR where possible, because although they do a LOT wrong, knowing the people who work for ACR and WPN at every level, I promise you the majority just want what is good for the players as a whole

:edit: as a side note I know first hand that stables give their players general exploits against the pool. Given three of you were in the stable, you likely had the same coaching and potentially had access to the same pool exploits, so I would imagine you would play in a very similar manner (potentially being a red flag for ACR security team)

It's not, there are some people who have pretty impressive win rates at 200NL Blitz. Unfortunately, I am not one of them

The "bots" that may have existed in the past were likely using overall exploits (same as what stables do...) against the pool rather than be playing perfect GTO on every street. In a pool full of good regs, these type of programmes will almost definitely be losing. These "bots" were actually very easily exploited

I appreciate your support on the matter. We did contact Phil, he talked to game integrity and they reopen the investigation. This was one and a half months ago, since then they don't even answer anymore.

We didn't play with same bankroll. Or didin't have any profit share or split deal. Just for you to understand , we play for the same stable with more than 100 players on it. My profit share on the stable has nothing to do with the other guys. I play with the stable money , but my profit is individual. Also every player have different deals with the stable depending how much u profit while you played there so far. So there is nothing like shared bankroll or anything.

Besides that, that could be said about any reg from same country playing the same pool. I guess u don't have to be same stable if u want to share profit with other player. It would be harder to do it on a stable actually , since there is rules against this on the stable and as i said different deals for every player.

Understand when i Say stable , is not a group of 5-10 ppl playing together. Is almost like a company , they offer you coaching , you play with their money and have a share of the profits depending on your deal.

Is way more std than you think

Unfortunately customer service is one of those things they do badly. Like talking to a brick wall half the time, and even I / other team members don't have a contact to push things forward. Hope it gets resolved either way!

they let withdraw the funds there. But the bigger amount of money i had there was in form of reward points . The whole goal of this challenge is the RB money. So most of the money wasn't withdraw

I know I have been involved in stables before. I was just trying to think from a security POV, things that may be relevant to the case, and pointing out that you winning / losing vs the regs more than others isn't really evidence against wrongdoing (although I would say it isn't really evidence for it either)