Poker Halls exploding in Europe
I live in Barcelona, and travel, throughout Europe for work, Spain, Germany, France, Czech Republic etc.. As I love poker, and I played online for years, first as a complete fish, but then I tried to improve, poker courses, GTO study etc, none worked. Anyway, I started playing live last year, with a 2,000 bankroll, I am up more money, in 4 months live, than 5 years online (I kid you not). It is great to see, so many casino's expanding due to demand, and the feedback, is always the same, from the general managers and staff. They tell me, that the old timers, regulars and newbies, have 0% trust for online sites, in Spain Partypoker is an embarassment, 2005 software, bots everywhere, nobody is even playing there, just 5 minutes ago, I was on their site, the rooms are empty, apart from the free buyin tourneys or 0.01, lol. RTA, collusion, bots etc, has killed online poker imo.
My question is, do you think online poker will survive, even in the next 5 years?
Thanks
17 Replies
I think the detection of poker bot will improve in the future. the skill determine whether a online site survive well
Online will always be around in some form or another. The lack of trust, particularly from recreational players, has left a permanent stain on online poker in general IMO, even if a site were to be completely legit. Thread title had me thinking something very bad happened.
The U.S. market could still get back to the state it was in pre Black Friday, where you could make 200k a year grinding 200NL. Theres enough people for it
I doubt that will happen anytime soon with the government they just elected in though. Not to mention the sports books and online casinos are way more profitable. It sucks but they just don’t care.
Maybe draftkings makes too much money with what they have to try to **** around legislation but that’s always been the only entity I thought could bring US online poker back to whatever you want to to consider the glory days if they wanted to
They have DFS nationally, they have sports gambling regionally, they have the consumer base to add poker and make money hand over fist at absurd rake if they wanted to. And if they bought the WSOP instead of 888? Woof
Online recs are not losing because of any of this, they are losing simply because, thanks to our friend H2N and MDA, we now have scientific proof of all the lines these guys are massively overbluffing, where they overfold and where they overcall. Plus the fact they don't play long enough to really notice, don't study enough to learn how to counter anything, and sometimes aren't even in their right mind to think about the game (playing while drinking comes to mind)
This has been delivered in CFPs, then sold in courses and has been even shown on free youtube videos nowadays. Blaming bots and RTA just show how clueless and dumb they are. If people armed with this starts going en masse to the live rooms, live will soon become similar to online.
Go to a room like pokerstars and play nl25 or nl50 or nl100 and you will see there are still recreationals, some very bad ones. Market is pretty efficient, if there is no recreational, table dies. They sit, table runs. It is as simple as that.
Online recs are not losing because of any of this, they are losing simply because, thanks to our friend H2N and MDA, we now have scientific proof of all the lines these guys are massively overbluffing, where they overfold and where they overcall. Plus the fact they don't play long enough to really notice, don't study enough to learn how to counter anything, and sometimes aren't even in their right mind to think about the game (playing while drinking comes to mind)
This has been delivered in CFPs,
The OP said the reason amateurs are leaving not necessarily losing... was because of bots, rta etc.
And they're right. I used to play online poker casually , maybe break even or slightly losing player. I quit because of the amount of bots, Rta software etc.. I didn't quit because I thought I was worse than others, I quit because the playing field online isn't even anymore.
Ok, I was assuming amateurs=recreationals=fish. The online field is not level for the latter, no matter how safe and fair the game is, for the reasons I posted.
Obviously online traffic is reducing every year, and the trend is eventual extinction, but for the (regular) tables that run, they are still profitable as always.
Online will always be around in some form or another. The lack of trust, particularly from recreational players, has left a permanent stain on online poker in general IMO, even if a site were to be completely legit. Thread title had me thinking something very bad happened.
ha ha, the "exploding" in my post
Online recs are not losing because of any of this, they are losing simply because, thanks to our friend H2N and MDA, we now have scientific proof of all the lines these guys are massively overbluffing, where they overfold and where they overcall. Plus the fact they don't play long enough to really notice, don't study enough to learn how to counter anything, and sometimes aren't even in their right mind to think about the game (playing while drinking comes to mind)
This has been delivered in CFPs,
Sorry, maybe i didn't word it correctly, it is not because we are losing or winning, as I metioned I did study and try to improve, for most fish like me for years, I didn't care about the losses, they were very limited, I enjoyed the game, and would play for hours, the trust is the issue, with what we can't see, so many players are choosing live, for example from a 30 to 500euro, you can enter live tournaments, for many players, it is a night out for 50quid in Barcelona and you get to socialise, do you see the shift?
So where are the best spots to play in Europe?
Sorry, maybe i didn't word it correctly, it is not because we are losing or winning, as I metioned I did study and try to improve, for most fish like me for years, I didn't care about the losses, they were very limited, I enjoyed the game, and would play for hours, the trust is the issue, with what we can't see, so many players are choosing live, for example from a 30 to 500euro, you can enter live tournaments, for many players, it is a night out for 50quid in Barcelona and you get to socialise,
Got it 100% 😀
Go to a room like pokerstars and play nl25 or nl50 or nl100 and you will see there are still recreationals, some very bad ones. Market is pretty efficient, if there is no recreational, table dies. They sit, table runs. It is as simple as that.
Yes if there are no marks the grifters go to where the marks are.
My favourite, is Barcelona and Madrid, they have daily tournaments, from fish to pro level, 30 - 1,000+euro buy ins, 1/3 + cash tables running daily.
Spielbank in Berlin, the largest poker floor in Germany , I love these casino's, free beer/cafe/water, accommodates all player levels, and buy ins.
In France there is over 60 poker halls, and they are building more!
Harrah's Entertainment, Inc., it will develop two new casinos in Slovenia and Italy.
The Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Athens, is due to open in 18 months, 200 poker tables!
This is only a few!
Live poker is becoming more popular than ever, online trust has gone!
Spielbank in Berlin, the largest poker floor in Germany , I love these casino's, free beer/cafe/water, accommodates all player levels, and buy ins.
Just a fair warning because a lot of US Players are used to relatively low rake:
Spielbank Berlin caps rake at 20€/hand for games as low as 2/2.
Just a fair warning because a lot of US Players are used to relatively low rake:
Spielbank Berlin caps rake at 20€/hand for games as low as 2/2.
What is the minimum rake on a hand? What is the percentage rake? Definitely changes the style of play as going big pots to go over rake cap seems less likely but if a low percentage allows more reasonable smallball play.
What is the minimum rake on a hand? What is the percentage rake? Definitely changes the style of play as going big pots to go over rake cap seems less likely but if a low percentage allows more reasonable smallball play.
No minimum rake, no flop no drop.
Percentage is 5%. Not totally sure when rake is taken out, I think for 5/5 it's 5€ every 100€. For lower limits it might be 2€ for every 40€?
