Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here
how bad must he be when a girl falls asleep while making out and snores right after?
life fish..... food arrived but didn't eat it....
o well atleast the girl grinded him on the rails of a club, almost got kicked out for grinding? Kappa
2nd on PGT leaderboard. In 1st almost all the way against weak final table with Ausmus, A. Foxen, etc. Obviously, can't play PLO.
2nd on PGT leaderboard. In 1st almost all the way against weak final table with Ausmus, A. Foxen, etc. Obviously, can't play PLO.
So when he plays PLO with ppl like Nacho Barbero and Alex Foxen its not so bad but once he gets in the ring with Weisman suddenly the game becomes a lot harder.
I wonder why that is...
So when he plays PLO with ppl like Nacho Barbero and Alex Foxen its not so bad but once he gets in the ring with Weisman suddenly the game becomes a lot harder.
I wonder why that is...
Well he more or less sunran this turning everyone dead ott when flipping pre however he did have two solid thin raises ip vs Fox at the jump. I think they've also got a pretty interesting dynamic going as Daniel tends to have with all the regs. I think they all look at him as a bit of a fish but nitty so raises by him are either super nutted or the rare "creative spaz" that youll see him do. Weismann is obviously one of the better PLO players overall, however I think a competent-ish at plo guy whose elite at mtts will beat an elite plo cash player as knowing mtt dynamics is something that raw skill cant really overcome
Interesting theory...
I think having the PLO cash game edge might be more +EV than being an elite MTT pro (in regards to the PLO variant only)
i have nothing to back this up though and literally no record of any of the top dawgs of PLO 6 max and HUPLO out shining the rest in MTTs to prove this..
Most of the elite cash game PLO pros stick to their format.
But with all that said, i think if those elite PLO players simply play the occasional sunday MTT regularly for a few years then that should be enough to outplay elite NLHE MTT pros in a PLO MTT.
Would be interesting to see guys like BERRI, Sanita, Gravs, or O4R play a high roller PLO MTT like this one day.
But I'm guessing its not worth having your cards exposed only playing for a few hundred K.
I don't if a $10K PLO is considered a high roller, although it did have a tough field. Online games are a mess, and there isn't that much high stake live games in anything. However, a high stakes cash player, who plays 50/50/100 or whatever PLO is probably not going to play a $10K tournament.
Negreanu is 2nd of the PGT leaderboard, having won 3 tournaments, 2 of them PLO. I agree that he doesn't play PLO well technically, but there are also tournament skills. If his opponents are thinking of him as a fish, like playing like an amateur, it is helping him. His play is somewhat old school, plus he has his small ball style, so doesn't play as aggressively in some spots as most current regs.
He wrote the chapter in the 2nd edition of Doyle's book on triple draw. It is well known that he recommended 3-betting strong 2 card draws before the first draw, but the standard is now to flat them so as not to give information. You can do well in triple draw, because people who don't know how to play it can make a lot of mistakes. You can make drawing mistakes as well as betting mistakes. This is more extreme in badeucy and badacy.
In the WSOP $50K 9-game he won, he said that once Ivey was knocked out, it was all big bet players, so he played more LAG in the stud games. There were many old school and younger mixed games regs in that tournament, so not sure why the final table was like that. Anyway NLHE / PLO players can generally pick up better NL 2-7SD, which is a no limit game, and limit holdem and O8, which are flop games. They may have more problems with stud games and triple draw.
In that Players Championship $50K 9-game, Negreanu played all 9 games pretty well, as well as being a strong tournament player. That combination gave him an advantage. That tournament has a small field, because the best players have a big advantage. For example, Rast won it 3 times. Jungleman won it 2 years in a row, and he has advantages as a NLHE/PLO player who has spent time at nosebleed stakes mixed games.
I am glad this win has shut down all the Negreanu is a fish posters in this thread, although I am sure they will resurface. Playing correct technically and being a good tournament player don't always go together.
Interesting theory...
I think having the PLO cash game edge might be more +EV than being an elite MTT pro (in regards to the PLO variant only)
i have nothing to back this up though and literally no record of any of the top dawgs of PLO 6 max and HUPLO out shining the rest in MTTs to prove this..
Most of the elite cash game PLO pros stick to their format.
But with all that said, i think if those elite PLO players simply play the occasional sunday MTT regularly for a few years then that should be en
Disagree. PLO Cash is about finding all the little edges everywhere, if you have a 52/48 you happily take your +EV and rebuy if you lose. In tournaments after the early stages its a lot more about being ICM aware and not getting into pointless spots where you are sort of committed post flop but where the possible +EV of winning doesnt outweigh the -EV of losing because of ICM. Cash regs have to deviate a lot from their normal strategies to adjust to the ICM environment.
Of course people like BERRI/Grazvidas would crush anyway but thats because their skill level in PLO is >>>>>>>>>>>>> who ever you put him up against. There isnt anyone in the world you can really compare to those cash game regs as a "PLO Tourney Reg" as the volume really isnt there to get as good in PLO tourneys as PLO cash. As for NL MTT regs you see in the Poker Go Highrollers that they are making questionable plays often and its pretty clear that their PLO skill level is a fraction of NL.
Not at all:
1. The punt happened when the final table just began and there were several much shorter stacks. It was ICM suicide. No doubt about it and he made a major mistake there.
2. The most recent one he won I only watched the 30 minutes highlight video but he bluffed Foxen at appropriate times with blockers, etc. and got paid off when he had it. In the highlights at least, he played very well.
In that Players Championship $50K 9-game, Negreanu played all 9 games pretty well, as well as being a strong tournament player. That combination gave him an advantage. That tournament has a small field, because the best players have a big advantage. For example, Rast won it 3 times. Jungleman won it 2 years in a row, and he has advantages as a NLHE/PLO player who has spent time at nosebleed stakes mixed games.
I am glad this win has shut down all the Negreanu is a fish posters in this thread, al
I watched it live and Daniel ran very well throughout the tournament, not just all-ins where he needed help but he had alot of easy spots where he has 8 high draw and his opponent had a worse 8 high draw and both got there in triple draw or he just got good pairs to value bet in LHE and on and on and on. He played most of them good occasional did some weird stuff but it didn't matter because most of the time he just had a better hand. obviously playing well in a tournament that prestigious is impressive but i never saw hands where it was "omg Daniel is the best player in this tournament".
Not at all:
1. The punt happened when the final table just began and there were several much shorter stacks. It was ICM suicide. No doubt about it and he made a major mistake there.
2. The most recent one he won I only watched the 30 minutes highlight video but he bluffed Foxen at appropriate times with blockers, etc. and got paid off when he had it. In the highlights at least, he played very well.
Can we even apply “ICM suicide” to Dnegs who clearly does not care about pay jumps? He has shown over and over propensity to buy trophies by rebuying 14 times until he runs up a stack. How is punting 2-3 buy ins in ICM any different?
If his goal is winning and solely winning, punting as middle stack vs chip leader on FT is not as disastrous as it seems.
He clearly wasn't dominating the PPC final table with his brilliant play. Not sure anyone would seem like clearly the best player there. Maybe Jungleman when he won twice in a row.
He mentioned that all the players at the end were PLO/NLHE players and he had an advantage in the stud games and triple draw.
That tournament has a very slow structure. When it was set up, it was 5x the buyin of any other WSOP event. At that time, by far the biggest game was the mixed game at Bellagio. It pretty much still is, but it now runs mostly only during the Series. Now still the biggest public games are generally mixed games. It was designed to be won by really top players.
So it was a good accomplishment for Negreanu to win it, and should silence some of the trolls.
act
Agreed he plays to win or take top places. He also plays as many WSOP and PGT games as he can, trying to win player of the year. Probably, winning is important for his ego and for his big endorsement contract.
Daniel plays a lot of mixed games quite well imo, but the reason he won the PPC was that he hit a 1 outer to scoop in O8 in a huge pot where the best he could reasonable hope for was getting quartered
It was quite a decisive moment. Imagine having that sort of run good in big tourneys. In 15 years of playing I can honestly say that Ive never won a 1 outer in a serious tournament (but lost 3 times). Must be nice. DNegs probably still under the impression that he has bad luck, lol.
Maybe you remember the times when your opponents hit 1 outers and not the times when you hit them.
DN wouldn't have won the PPC if he didn't hit that straight flush. However, you usually need some good breaks to win a tournament.
I guess the theory is he has a high luck quotient or rungood quotient.
It is still an accomplishment to win the PPC. Also winning 3 PGTs, 2 10Ks and a 5K, all with tough fields, 2 of them PLO tournaments. He is obviously still a top tournament player, but not an end boss like 15 years ago.
It was quite a decisive moment. Imagine having that sort of run good in big tourneys. In 15 years of playing I can honestly say that Ive never won a 1 outer in a serious tournament (but lost 3 times). Must be nice. DNegs probably still under the impression that he has bad luck, lol.
So you have never hit a set on the turn or river when you have an underpair and been told that someone else mucked the other (last) one?
Maybe you remember the times when your opponents hit 1 outers and not the times when you hit them.
DN wouldn't have won the PPC if he didn't hit that straight flush. However, you usually need some good breaks to win a tournament.
I guess the theory is he has a high luck quotient or rungood quotient.
It is still an accomplishment to win the PPC. Also winning 3 PGTs, 2 10Ks and a 5K, all with tough fields, 2 of them PLO tournaments. He is obviously still a top tournament player, but not an end boss l
the only notable event he had with a high place finish 15 years ago in 2009 was 2nd in the Euro WSOP main event (that only had 334 players) and a 2nd place finish at a WSOP $ 2,500 Limit Hold'em event.
Pretty sure 2009 is when online crushers started showing everyone a different side of poker with Tom Dwan and Viktor Blom being introduced to the scene.
OK, maybe he was a tournament crusher in 2007, not 2009. My point is he is a top tournament player still, but not dominant as when he got all the TV time. Also, Blom did well at the WSOP this year, but he and Dwan were not tournament players at all.
I watched the video of his $5K PLO PGT win earlier this year. He played the big stack well, taking pots betting with less than 50% equity with ICM pressure, etc. People make fun of his saying PLO is his best game. He wouldn't do well at high stakes PLO cash, and doesn't play it well technically. He also flat call preflop in situation where I would 3!. However, his tournament skills and skill playing postflop shallow help him in PLO tournaments.
As for hitting a 1-outer, that was in O8. It is much easier to make a straight flush, etc. in Omaha than in holdem.
I can see why he has a big contract. I like to watch final table videos where he is playing. It is interesting to see how he plays hands. He has a unique style. It isn't as interesting watching GTO types make standard plays.
He is probably best at mixed games, partly because he is old school. However, IMO he is very good at PLO MTTs. It suits his style seeing the flop with an SPR of 1 to 4.
i think PLO MTTs are his worst format, mostly due to him over valuing anything that is top 2 pair + coincided with his ability to afford as many rebuys as possible...which is understandably a good strategy to play all in or fold in an effort to build a big stack and then proceed to play his famous "low-ball" strategy to the final table.
Pretty sure anyone with his bankroll would do that though. I know i would.
I will say I think he underestimates his mixed game prowess. I would personally not try any fancy movies on him playing a game like stud, stud8, or LHE.
So you have never hit a set on the turn or river when you have an underpair and been told that someone else mucked the other (last) one?
No. I lost set over set all in on the turn to rivered quads. Lost flush against flush to rivered straight flush 1 outer. And lost A8 against AA on 88xx river A. All huge tournament spots. Never had anything remotely similar happen the other way. I would definitely remember, a 1 outer isnt something that you just move on from without remembering it.
Off the top of my head I can think of 2 situations where DNegs was on the positive end of these kind of situations - that PPC 1 outer, and rivering quads against Bryn Kenney top set - and none where he was on the receiving end.
The point is that this kind of variance definitely does not even out over a life time of playing MTTs, and Negreanu is clearly on the very lucky side of the variance.
