Interesting Tweet
This was an interesting tweet/post by Sean McCormick which I though might be worth some discussion:
Sean McCormack @ThePokerBoss
I often see posts that poker rooms shouldn’t accept business from players who overwhelmingly and notoriously don’t pay back their staking deals.
What say you?
Yes - Better for the game
No - Risky precedent
there's been several poker sites that have had a staking option through the client
why not just allow for it at the cage
guaranteed payout for the backer and simplifies everyone's taxes
This one is easy, the rooms need to stay out of it.
Unless the rooms have desire and ability to investigate claims themselves they are just relying on what others told them.
And I’ll state the unpopular view that they also need to stay out of the Ali Imrosovic situation. Unless he admitted to or got caught cheating in live poker, they should let him play. Anything else including online poker is comparing apples to oranges. It’s like banning pro athletes who got caught taking steroids from poker tournaments. They are cheaters too.
Bunch of degens, name or no name player, the same. If you start banning, there will be no one left. Backers are the biggest fish in the room.
Ridiculous premise that wouldn’t pass the NGCB/NGC smell test.
“Hi I’d like to reg for this tourny”
“Sorry, we hear you owe Fat Tony a couple dimes, kick rocks”
Laughable scenario.
The room is supposed to waste their time litigating who owes who what?
Poker players are such pansies, either accept the fact that you foolishly staked a degenerate scumbag or do something about it yourself.
Comical to expect the rooms to intervene on your behalf now.
What do you find interesting about it in particular? Or just desperate for some content?
A few quick comments.
1. I would substitute the words "extremely unethical behavior" for the words "who overwhelmingly and notoriously don’t pay back their staking deals."
2. Casinos in Nevada, are allowed to ban people for virtually any reason. If they deem you to be an undesirable customer, you can be given a vacation.
3. I agree with the sentiment, in the case of staking, that you need to know who you're dealing with and whether you can be sure you'll be paid.
4. In the world of poker, there is something known as "sucker privileges." Let's face it, if the particular poker player is a big loser, most other poker players will tolerate a lot. (See my book Real Poker Psychology: Expanded Edition for more discussion.
5. One criterion that poker room managers should consider in the case of an extremely unethical player is whether this person is bad for business. Even if he's a big loser, if he's drivine customers away, this is something to consider.
there's been several poker sites that have had a staking option through the client
why not just allow for it at the cage
guaranteed payout for the backer and simplifies everyone's taxes
is there some reason i'm missing why the cage couldn't facilitate this
seems pretty simple
both people show players cards and the money at the cage and any prize amount gets split on the percentage both players agreed to when the tournament was entered
solves this issue cleanly
i've staked a lot of players online through clients that facilitate staking in this way and been satisfied with it
would probably increase prize pools too because more people would be willing to back players if they were guaranteed they get paid out
i would back some cash game regs in the nightly tournament just to keep them out of the cash game pool for the night
Im a scummy stakehorse
Every time no one's looking I pocket a chip or two
When everyone is watching, I get a friend on the table and dump my stack to him
The cage is supposed to keep track of every buying? Are you ready for the cage to be involved in your IRS audit?
The idea is stupid. Poker is about using your wits to succeed. If you back someone who's out to cheat you, then you lose.
there's been several poker sites that have had a staking option through the client
why not just allow for it at the cage
guaranteed payout for the backer and simplifies everyone's taxes
i would back some cash game regs in the nightly tournament just to keep them out of the cash game pool for the night
You're worried that they are going to rip you off when they are regulars in the same room and you can easily verify their results?
As for why they wouldn't want to do it...why would they? Poker is already a low margin business compared to the rest of the casino why make their own lives more complicated. Are they going to charge a percentage to themselves for facilitating these deals and if they did would you still do it? Probably not
A few quick comments.1. I would substitute the words "extremely unethical behavior" for the words "who overwhelmingly and notoriously don’t pay back their staking deals."2. Casinos in Nevada, are allowed to ban people for virtually any reason. If they deem you to be an undesirable customer, you can be given a vacation.3. I agree with the sentiment, in the case of staking, that
Cheating and scamming in poker carry virtually no legal risks, as the Postle case and others show.
Unless someone is something like a gangster or maybe a cop, there is really nothing they can do to retaliate against cheaters/scammers because it is very unwise for a normal person to risk prison in order to teach someone like Russ Hamilton or Hawkins a lesson.
So it seems to me that either rooms, tournaments, and sites crack down by keeping these people out of poker, or we just admit that we are fine with people cheating and scamming as much as they like.
Im a scummy stakehorseEvery time no one's looking I pocket a chip or twoWhen everyone is watching, I get a friend on the table and dump my stack to himThe cage is supposed to keep track of every buying? Are you ready for the cage to be involved in your IRS audit?The idea is stupid. Poker is about using your wits to succeed. If you back someone who's out to cheat you, then you l
they already keep track of every buyin. you show your player's card to buy in, you show your card when you cash. they already give you a w2-g.. how is it that much more difficult to show 2 cards? oh no the guy had to swipe twice time to charge 5%.
it's a pretty simple calculation. they're a business that wants to do more business. why not provide more features that generate more business?
Poker rooms shouldn't accept business from players that are known cheaters on the table. People that are known anglers, cheaters, RTA users, etc such as Imsirovic.
However, anything that happens off the felt shouldn't be something that poker rooms deny service for.
the fact so many people are willing to hand out money to barely people they even know is insane, let alone another "gambler"
casinos should stay out of it and will. even dumb brining it up
they already keep track of every buyin. you show your player's card to buy in, you show your card when you cash. they already give you a w2-g.. how is it that much more difficult to show 2 cards? oh no the guy had to swipe twice time to charge 5%.it's a pretty simple calculation. they're a business that wants to do more business. why not provide more features that generat
In what casino do they take you card every buy in and cash out lol?
Yes, there is a problem with known cheaters. Totally ridiculous to ban people over staking deals. None of the casino's business.
I appreciate the sentiment, but this idea is absurd. It simply isn't enforceable, but if a casino manager has a problem with a particular player then why not ban them. **** those guys.
They could ban Hawkins and probably no one would care.
Maybe they should ban players with criminal records or bad credit ratings!
the fact so many people are willing to hand out money to barely people they even know is insane, let alone another "gambler"
casinos should stay out of it and will. even dumb brining it up
The reason why casinos should not stay out of it is that sometimes you'll have several people at the same table who are all part of the same staking group. This can affect the integrity of the games, and that's a potential problem.
here's an idea...if you don't have the money to play a tournament or the cash game that interests you...don't play it until you do.
