$22 Bounty: Top pair vs table captain
I have A♥ J♥ in the big blind. I'm sitting 3rd place with 15 remaining. Although I'm not much ahead of 4th and 5th. I am raised by the tournament chip leader who has been raising my BB all table as he has double the chips of my 3rd place stack.
I flop top pair, top kicker. I am up against a super LAG opponent. This leads me to believe I'm strong and ahead.
The factors cautioning me to slow down are that I don't want to bust in 15th and that I started the hand with 40BBs and the stack/pot ratio on the flop is 5.33. This is a bit higher than the SPR you'd want which I read you want and SPR of 4 or less.
Looking back, if I check/call the flop and turn, he likely makes a pot size bet to go after my bounty. Given the board run out, that would be a tough spot to be facing that bet on the river with say 70K in chips remaining, to a chip leader with a LAG image.
I check raised all in here basically.
Looking back, ideally I just check/call there and take a hit to my stack. I'm not sure what the total damage would have been though. He only bets $5K on the flop. But then he's going to bet the turn and river as well. I could have check/called thinking that my SPR is too high to commit on the flop to this. However, I was worried about him making a better hand so I wanted to take it right there. I could have let him bluff if he was bluffing instead of trying to end the hand as well.
Is there a way to get away from going bust here, or am I just going to assume I'm ahead. I see this guy opening 54 offsuit from early position to my big blind.
This is one of those hands that really sucks and stings man. I just hope I can learn something from it. I don't play much poker any more. So this shitty feeling is one that hasn't hit me for awhile. The late stage or final table mistakes are the worst. This isn't as bad as some other mistakes I've made which have cost me hundreds, but who knows how it would have turned out.
When I went all in I was thinking, "if he has me, he has me" and he did. I just want to have the right thought process next time.
PokerStars - 1250/2500 Ante 380 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
UTG+1: 85.73 BB
MP: 25.56 BB
CO: 84.94 BB
BTN: 22.36 BB
SB: 19.89 BB
Hero (BB): 40.49 BB
UTG: 21.35 BB
7 players post ante of 0.15 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.56 BB) Hero has A♥ J♥
fold, UTG+1 raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 1.5 BB, Hero calls 1 BB
Flop: (7.06 BB, 3 players) 3♦ T♥ J♠
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets 2 BB, SB calls 2 BB, Hero raises to 15.06 BB, UTG+1 raises to 83.58 BB and is all-in, fold, Hero calls 23.27 BB and is all-in
Turn: (85.73 BB, 2 players) 4♣
River: (85.73 BB, 2 players) 7♦
Hero shows A♥ J♥ (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 46%, Flop 7%, Turn 0%)
UTG+1 shows T♠ T♣ (Three of a Kind, Tens)
(Pre 54%, Flop 93%, Turn 100%)
UTG+1 wins 85.73 BB
9 Replies
Again, posting with results will skew the responses you get.
Earlier in the tournament I think this is fine. Your check-raise is huge, though, and committing. You could check-raise smaller and see what develops from there, but you might have to just fold TPTK to a shove in that case. At 3/15, I think the smarter play is to play passively and for pot control. You have a backdoor straight and nut flush draw, too, so you can still improve. I'd call, see what the turn action is. Would be difficult to fold that turn, though. Against the opponent as described, maybe you're just supposed to call/call/call and go broke, although you might leave yourself the option to fold the river if you're convinced he's not going to triple-barrel.
Given the strength of hand he would need to get in 40BB this late in the game, and the LAG opponent, this might play better as a bluff-catcher. One thing that's important for how you proceed is how aggressively he plays postflop. Some LAGs will barrel off on any good cards post; others will play a lot of hands pre but shut down when they get resistance post. But in any case, I think playing more cautiously and bluff-catching is better than going aggressive to pile it in this late. This is especially true since it'd be going multiway to the turn and I'd expect UTG+1 to play more straightforwardly at this point. Similarly, check-raising against two opponents indicates significant strength on your part, and your sizing points to more or less exactly what you have. So you've kinda made it into a spot where he's not going to continue unless he beats you.
Or maybe I think that because of what he had, and we wouldn't be discussing this if he had KJ. But that's my analysis.
Raise pre and be prepared to fold or get it in vs a 4bet
Flat calling pre has you playing against a pretty undefined range which could include over pairs to two pair hands like 10Js
Check raise smaller on flop and be prepared to fold
Don’t post results !!
Thanks for your input Nath. Bluff catching sounds like a good way to go. Like you said, the backdoor draws could improve my hand even if they could help his hand on the turn. I wasn't following the action enough to know his post flop play. But I know his hand range is loose and he was calling off very light (like 20BB all ins) with weak hands just to go for bounties. The LAG image is what had me viewing his bets as light.
For the check/raise vs the SB, I wasn't as worried about him because I had double his stack and his bounty was a decent amount of $40.
Maybe I stay away from the check/calling route sometimes because I get scared of getting outdrawn on the turn or river. Say he had a K or Q to out draw me. Or even a pair that hits a set. But ya, those bad outcomes are risks I should take to keep the pot manageable and low and not jeopardize my tournament life at that point.
Generally, I try to play one pair hands much smaller vs players that have me covered at this stage of a tournament.
I also would give the concepts of tells much less importance in an on line tournament and rely more on the math. You describe him as the table captain and bullying your big blind since you beat him but all of that may be coincidental.
I definitely like calling pre with this hand unless he will 4b wide but I don't think he will. Your flop raise is massive - you eliminate any bluffs/bad draws and let him know you have top pair+ or at least KQ. Rather just call the flop bet and keep in his bluffs. Either way though given the results you were probably going broke here, but I don't like how you played it.
Raise pre and be prepared to fold or get it in vs a 4bet
Flat calling pre has you playing against a pretty undefined range which could include over pairs to two pair hands like 10Js
Check raise smaller on flop and be prepared to fold
Don’t post results !!
3-bet/folding a big suited ace seems pretty bad.
Against the chip leader I will almost always call pre-flop in this spot. In this case because Villain has been raising all the time against you I get the value of a 3-bet to like 7 bb's but I prefer not to do that because we will have to fold to a jam which Villain can do with hands like 88-TT (and of course AQ+/QQ+)
On the flop it is tricky because the board has JT so the turn could be a card that changes everything (like an A, K, Q, J, T, 9, 7, 3 and even 8). Because it is a rainbow though it makes it better for Villain and so the 2 bb bet seems weak.
However, raising to 15 bb's is extremely bad. Its way over 33% effective stack which means you are pot committed basically. You can get just as many folds by raising to 7 bb's which is much safer. If I raised to 7 bb's and Villain shoved I likely fold because we would still have more chips than the average player and even though Villain can have KQ where we would be +EV calling, Villain can also have JT/TT/QQ+ which means we would be out in 15th most of the time.
I think that because we are against the chip leader I would just call the flop bet. But a lot of the time Villain is going to check the turn with hands like AK/AQ and we lose out on getting Villain to fold. Still I prefer a very small pot against the chip leader rather than a huge one.
If Villain bets large on the turn (like 67% pot) I likely call that too (always if its a heart).
But then we are in a very tough spot on the river if Villain makes a very large bet. But Villain might not do that because 98 got there.
A couple of thoughts, assuming this is a PKO and not a straight bounty.
1) At this stage of the tourney you should be heavily focused on protecting your chip stack so you cover as many players as possible. That means avoiding getting into big pots with players that cover you, without nutty hands.
2) Your goal should be to target smaller stacks so the flop x/r was a mistake. You want SB in the hand because your goal is to get his bounty. The last thing you want to do is drive the bounty target out of the hand while bloating the pot against a larger stack, which is precisely what you did.
Maybe it is. Although playing OOP with AJs is only fun when we hit the board hard.
Raise to 6/7BB and maybe continue vs a 4-bet at some low frequency. Button’s range should have a lot of hands that r/f, it doesn’t have many that will 4-bet, at least we’ve narrowed his range to some extent.
Post? Proceed with caution.
On this specific runout? Meh, you lose a lot of chips either way.