$600 BI tournament final 4 tables (15 paid)

Also mis type it was final 3 tables 8/9/9 26 players left and we were on a table of 8.

I would fold against a fish. Probably folding anyway. He made it 9xBB and has about 40xBB. I don't see how you can 4! except to push.

Maybe it's not close enough to the money but I feel like a 4bet min click repping AA while blocking AA generates a ton of folds and gives us maneuverability post flop against the short middling stack even with low SPR. I was 2nd in chips at the table and wanted to exert ICM pressure on middling stacks. Against a fish that only 3bets JJ+ it would be a fold though yeah.

If you minclick, you make it 15.5xBB, so the pot will be about 33xBB with 23.5xBB behind. So you be getting about 2.3-1 if he shoves. You would have odds to call with a suited ace in terms of cEV, but maybe you could fold to preserve your stack. So I don't think you are deep enough for that kind of play.

I would rather make that minclick 4! or shove than flat call.

I would either fold, call, or jam (in that order). To min raise 4 bet its at least 40% effective stack which is pot committing. A 4 bet min raise will rarely get a fold in this situation because it will be for less than 30% of the effective stack for the SB.

The SB's 3-bet sizing is actually very good at about 3.5x. Normally I would call because it is under 4x but here I have a bad feeling that the range can easily be AT+/88+ and if we miss on the flop we will likely be behind and likely have to fold even if SB has hands like A5s and SC's. Even if we hit our hand on the flop we can be behind and lose 40 bb's so I prefer to fold here and wait for a better spot.

I don't mind jamming with hands like AJ+/99+ but here a jam is over 50% of our stack size and SB will likely not fold any hands that are ahead of us.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I guess no one is ever randomizing here against fish but was an interesting spot due to stack differences, ICM, and positions. I think pure fold to this size is probably best option

Yeah, there it is. If he's a fish, just fold; Fish usually 3-bet linear top of range, rather than going for balance. Against a good player, you could consider all of your options.

Is he a fish or top 10% player in the room? From your description, he seems competent. Why would he go after a bigger stack, from worst position with a hand you are beating, a few spots from the money?

What was the average stack at the time?

I've never seen him before and I assume everyone is a fish until proven otherwise. There are literally 3 regs in the entire player pool that aren't losing tournament players.

SB has a ton of 3bets here with KQs weak suited Ax, etc that fold to 4bet near the money if he's studied GTO and thinks I'm also a good player he will have a ton of 3bet folds here.

So he is a fish that studies GTO and has tons of 3b folds. Got it.

So if V knows that H knows that V has tons of 3bet folds, wouldn’t V then only 3bet OOP with the apogee of his nonlinear range?

Not sure that the meta game is a good idea against an unknown.

What options appeal?
4! Min and fold to a jam? - nobody’s calling the jam surely?
4! Min and play an inflated pot against an uncapped range, albeit in position?
Flat and play a slightly smaller pot in position.
Fold, because if we don’t have a raise/fold range we’re exploitable.

Mostly i’m folding, with maybe a rare flat call thrown in.

This deep in the tournament, and with these stack sizes, I am min opening. Save that 0.5BB when we fold.

If we had min opened, and he had gone to about 7 or 7.5 I'd call. As it is, a reluctant fold. This isn't a great hand to 4! jam (AT or A5 are better bluffs)...

Generally I min open unless a few factors combine: 1) late position, 2) loose passive fish in BB, 3) I am overwhelming big stack vs. The effective stacks behind. In this case all 3 boxes were checked so I sized up. And his size up vs my open is actually a really good 3bet size even if I min raised I suspect he'd go close to 8 here.

Agree jam seems a like a massive punt in this spot. I know GTO has some crazy 40+BB jam spots but I think it's mostly SB vs BTN

Fold isn't bad no matter what. Without more reads, I would assume the 3!s might be strong and fold. If he seemed to be 3-betting light and the stacks were deeper, 4!/fold might be good.

Generally, fish 3! a tight range and other fish flat call 3!s mostly, so folding with hands like this is actually a good exploit.

I think we still need an answer on which of these you believe to be true about the player in question:

For this particular player based on later reads as we headed into the final table I think he was pretty solid. Still, unless I have more history with a villain and can say for certain I agree with the general consensus that fold is/was the best option.

Results of hand?

I tank called, flop came KK7tt with backdoor flush for me. He bet small flop for like 25%, called, turn 2r he bet smallish again around 45% and I folded. Definitely feel I lost the max lol.