$130 lol donkament icm punts
i know these were bad, but i'm trying to find out if they were chernobyl bad
hand one
on the stone nuts, 7th place with 6 paid
i have the smallest stack by a lot, after recent bb/ante passing I have about 2.8k chips with the bb and ante being a combined 1.6k
it seems to be a bunch of people who all know each other, but again this is a $130 tourney so don't expect any coordinated collusion just more of a "i hope the rando busts" type situation
next smallest stack is about 9k and while everyone should be super tight until i bust, they haven't been at all with a few early bustouts from guys who could have feasibly folded their way into the money
the two chip leaders are to my left
folds to me in the btn and I look down at QTs figuring that it's very likely btn and one of the blinds just call and check it down to bust me but that this is probably also a legit shot at nearly quadrupling up into a position to actually play some hands so i jammed
they snap call and check it down
Spoiler
Q2o>QTs>63o
hand 2 same tourney another day
about 13 left with 6 getting paid i am a top third stack and the chip leader to my direct left
he's actively reprimanded the former chip leader for calling my jam earlier with cards as bad as ATo so it's kind of clear these are buddies who want me to bust out before them
it folds to us in the blinds, i have 66 and flick in the call from the sb and he pumps it up 3x and i call
flop comes K9Kss and he cbets a pot size bet and i jam
he has me covered but barely, he's going to be in massive trouble if he loses the hand, he's not seen me play much but i just did a similar play with the nuts and got paid
Spoiler
he calls with QsQx and spikes a queen on the turn
8 Replies
Hand 1, not much you can do there, especially since with the gap in stacks there's simply no way you can wait it out
Hand 2, how deep the stacks are matters, for sure. I'm not sure what your thought process is or why you'd jam over such a big flop bet with this holding on this board
thought was a hand other than kx would have to fold, was very surprised to see queens making the call there
nobody was deep, biggest stack probably around 30 bigs, we were both healthy compared to the rest of the field with about 21bb and 23bb stacks there were a few stacks of <10bb
fwiw he went deep into the tank and had the clock called on him by another player and finally cry called as the clock ran out
as i got up and left everyone was clearly talking about how big a punt that was, which i don't necessarily disagree with, but i felt like i could rep kx here and still beat or outdraw a lot of his bluff catchers if he hero called me - this is not a defense of my play, but i kind of feel like calling with QQ with the Q of spades here is a lot worse than jamming 66 with the 6 of spades
Hand 1 - not sure if this is even a question. You have 6 or 7 BB?
It folds to you on the button (or HJ your post suggests that the button might call…😉
I’d high five the dealer and then jam.
I’ll check the outcome later
Hand 2 - calling the raise pre to set mine is ok, I guess. Stacking off on that board? Meh, I guess it works vs a lot of his PF raising range, but it feels spewy. Against a bigger stack I’m inclined to say ‘no set, no bet’ and fold on the flop.
You already posted a spoiler in the thread. Doesn’t change my thoughts
thought was a hand other than kx would have to fold, was very surprised to see queens making the call there
Starting with 23BB and he's already put in 10 after his preflop raise and pot sized flop bet with QQ on a KK9 flush draw board? Seems like a pretty easy call tbh. I'd think most of your range is 9x or flush draws (maybe combo draws). Kx I would think you'd just call a significant percentage of the time.
I'm honestly surprised he took that long to call. I wouldn't be that thrilled about calling, but the pot odds are too good and you could have a lot of hands we're ahead of. I think assuming you only have Kx to take this line is pretty flawed. And I think trying to push someone off a hand like this when they're getting around 3:1 to call is not a winning tactic.
(I wouldn't make a PSB on the flop, myself, but that's a separate issue.)
Starting with 23BB and he's already put in 10 after his preflop raise and pot sized flop bet with QQ on a KK9 flush draw board? Seems like a pretty easy call tbh. I'd think most of your range is 9x or flush draws (maybe combo draws). Kx I would think you'd just call a significant percentage of the time.
I'm honestly surprised he took that long to call. I wouldn't be that thrilled about calling, but the pot odds are too good and you could have a lot of hands we're ahead of. I think assuming you on
thanks appreciate it, as someone who's experience is 99.9% playing 250+ bbs deep in cash i'm very much out of my element in mtts hence signing up for random cheap tournies when they come up to get the experience i need
as for the "he wouldn't jam with kx" logic
i agree at higher stakes fully, but i've found in low stakes misadventures that people don't tend to slow play when they have a lock on the hand if there's any kind of vulnerable draw ie kx calls if flop is rainbow but jams on two spades just to avoid "getting sucked out on" so this was why i decided to rep it
thanks appreciate it, as someone who's experience is 99.9% playing 250+ bbs deep in cash i'm very much out of my element in mtts hence signing up for random cheap tournies when they come up to get the experience i need
Yeah, a lot of it is just learning how to adjust play on shorter stacks - both preflop and post, but especially preflop - and for what ICM dictates in how you adjust your play and what you're willing to get it in with at different stages of the tournament.
A lot of my answers are going to be from a more theoretical perspective unless we have significant reads, so keep that in mind. (I guess theoretically speaking, limp/shove preflop would've been the better play here, although it wouldn't have had a good result. BB probably isn't bluff-raising preflop enough for it at these stakes.)
as for the "he wouldn't jam with kx" logic
i agree at higher stakes fully, but i've found in low stakes misadventures that people don't tend to slow play when they have a lock on the hand if there's any kind of vulnerable draw ie kx calls if flop is rainbow but jams on two spades just to avoid "getting sucked out on" so this was why i decided to rep it
Yeah, that's true. I think the flipside of it is, players that fit this profile also bet big like this when they have a strong but vulnerable hand, and they're basically never doing it as a bluff. I generally try to avoid pushing players off what I think are strong hands. (Especially when the SPR is this low and the pot odds are so good-- folding QQ here is basically only justifiable if the overwhelming part of your range is Kx, and it's hard to be confident in that.)
yeah i mean i completely misread the situation, i assumed i was under repped by my limp and if he did try to bluff catch it would mostly be Ax type hands which he thought he'd be good against
