3 handed as the middle stack 2.7bb(BTN),7.5bb(SB), 29bb (BB)
Big stack has 48.5bb not 29 can't fix the title.
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Min raising to 3bb is the correct move here instead right? I'm not being results oriented in thinking that right? Because if we raise to 3bb and the big stack jams the short stack is going to be forced to call-in. Very interesting hand, I made a mistake and got outplayed.
Ignition Hand #5154946355: HOLDEM Tournament #74732004 TBL#14, Normal- Level 38 (100000/200000) - 2025-04-26 14:07:37
Seat 95: Small Blind [ME] (1,508,720 in chips)
Seat 56: Big Blind (8,907,314 in chips)
Seat 47: Dealer (583,856 in chips)
Dealer : Set dealer [9]
Small Blind [ME] : Ante chip 40000
Big Blind : Ante chip 40000
Dealer : Ante chip 40000
Small Blind [ME] : Small blind 100000
Big Blind : Big blind 200000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Small Blind [ME] : Card dealt to a spot [Js Jh]
Big Blind : Card dealt to a spot [Qd Qs]
Dealer : Card dealt to a spot [As 4d]
Dealer : Raises 400000 to 400000
Small Blind [ME] : All-in(raise) 1368720 to 1468720
Big Blind : All-in(raise) 8667314 to 8867314
Dealer : Folds
Big Blind : Return uncalled portion of bet 7398594
*** FLOP *** [8s 6s 4h]
*** TURN *** [8s 6s 4h] [9d]
*** RIVER *** [8s 6s 4h 9d] [2d]
Small Blind [ME] : Showdown [Js Jh 9d 8s 6s] (One pair)
Big Blind : Showdown [Qs Qd 9d 8s 6s] (One pair)
Big Blind : Hand Result 3457440
Big Blind : BOUNTY PRIZE [$19]
Small Blind [ME] : Ranking 3
Small Blind [ME] : Prize Cash [$707.16]
Small Blind [ME] : Stand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot(3457440)
Board [8s 6s 4h 9d 2d]
Seat+95: Small Blind lose with One pair [Js Jh-Js Jh 9d 8s 6s]
Seat 56:Big Blind 3457440 with One pair [Qd Qs-Qs Qd 9d 8s 6s] BOUNTY awarded:$19
Seat+47: Dealer Folded on the FLOP
1st is 1200 something lets say 1250
2nd is 900 something lets say 938
9 Replies
Yeah appears thatd of been the ideal raise size.
It's gets interesting if he folds, I'd suppose you'd just have to fold too and be playing exclusively for 2nd place.
Gets kinda interesting as the stack sizes change. Let's say big stack did only have 29 BB then it'd probably be a call still even if the button folded? Because you'd be winning about a 18.5 BB pot and be fairly close to chip lead
You definitely want to leave yourself room to fold in case of a BB jam and button call, but I'm not sure min-raising is the way to go.
I think, at least in theory, BB should be able to bully pretty relentlessly in that scenario. Like WPNdonk said, you would probably have an ICM fold if BB jams and button folds.
I know it sounds crazy but I'm wondering if the best play might be to just fold the jacks to the minraise? It might just be right to fold everything short of AA, KK, MAYBE AKs and QQ? Try to wait out the short stack until they either bust or double.
The other line that might make sense would be to raise like 80% of your stack. Leave yourself enough to fold in case BB shoves and button calls but price yourself in if BB shoves and button folds (honestly 80% of stack might not be enough to price yourself in, you might have to go like 90% of your stack).
My reasoning for considering the second line is that JJ really doesn't want to raise/fold here. Paradoxically you are less likely to end up getting involved in a pot with the big stack after you show him that you're committed to getting all your chips in. Obviously with him having queens it wouldn't have worked out for you, but BB is going to jam a lot less if you raise to 80% of your stack than if you raise to 3 bb.
It's an interesting spot.
Posting results will skew answers, but I guess in this case, the results are the actual situation you want to ask about.
That said, yeah, min-3-bet is totally fine here, you want to get button committed before you get your chips in because of the ICM effect and not wanting to let a shorter stack off the hook so you can at least secure the pay jump. (Even if you still call off with JJ after button calls all in, you'll still finish 2nd-- but you have to make sure button gets all in.)
Just typed up a long response but lost it when I hit post.
Takeaways:
Ran a few ICM sims.
Minraise may indeed be the best play out of the SB. It was preferred by solver after allowing for multiple sizings.
However jam was not that bad. If we had minraised, after BB jammed we were still supposed to call with jacks even if button folded.
Folding jacks to the initial open as I suggested would have been horrible. Hand is just too strong and stacks are too short.
Why does player 3 open the betting instead of SB?
If BTN calls the all-in, we almost have to call off with JJ.
The chance of finishing 3rd with JJ in a 3-way all-in are rather low I would say (especially considering BTN wide range with his stack).
What do you mean? It's 3-handed, the button acts first.
I would have just called with JJ preflop. Then if BB raises we get to see whether or not BTN (short stack) calls. If not we can fold as well if we care about making the additional $200 or we can call if we would rather take a shot at 1st place by doubling up with JJ (even then BB would have a about double our stack).
BB may have chosen to just call to knock out BTN but my guess is that BB would have jammed. I would think that BTN would call the jam because we would not be committed to getting it all in and BTN would have less than 1 bb and would be the BB next hand if they fold... If BTN called a BB jam I would probably call as well. To potentially win but also because we increase the chances of knocking out BTN.
I don't mind the SB jam because I care more about potentially winning, but I'm guessing ICM wise we do better by not allowing BTN to see us all in vs BB.
I would shove. BB isn't going call and beat you that often. Otherwise, I would flat call. Don't want to 3! most of our stack and fold. Short stack can still take second with .7xBB versus your 3.5xBB.
