Chopping and Tipping in live tournaments

Whenever I'm in that spot and discussing a chop, I bring up the issue of tipping the dealers and suggest that we take a certain amount out of the prize pool for the dealers BEFORE we split up the money. In circumstances when I'm the 1st place winner, there is pressure to tip more, since I took down the lion's share of the money. That's fine, but if it's a chop and my 1st place money is already being shared with the number of players who are chopping, it makes sense for everyone involved in the chop to proportionally tip the dealers by taking the money off the top. This has generally been acceptable to the other players who want to chop. If there is a player who wants a chop, but is not willing to tip the dealers, I consider that a valid reason for not agreeing to the chop.

I tend to be one of the people who wants to chop, on ICM, if things are running long. I generally want to get home. I respect anyone who has a big stack and does not want to give up their accumulated equity, but an ICM chop accomplishes that. Reasonable minds can differ about when to chop or not chop. I don't get excited about it.

I do not think dealers should complain or put pressure on the players to chop. That's not their job. I sympathize with their wage issues, but it's not proper. I would, however, advocate for the last two players who are going head's up to agree to a dealer tip amount (even if it's x for whoever finishes 1st and y for whoever finishes second) and let the dealers know. Good dealer relations goes a long way for your long-term casino experience.

I doubt two dealers getting credit for an extra round or two significantly effects a dealers hourly rate. I would call bullshit.

That dealer is extremely unprofessional. You have no responsibility to chop so he can go home earlier. That is ridiculous.

As for chopping in general, if you genuinely don't ever want to chop just say, "I don't chop."

I've encountered several players who do this, and it shuts down the conversation quicker than anything. If you leave any sort of opening or possibility that you might chop, people will continue to complain and try to talk you into it. If you say you never chop, you might still get a few grumbles, but eventually regulars will accept that you don't chop and stop pushing for it.

Personally there are times I genuinely would like to chop (in major large field events, etc.), but I tend to be too nice at times. I end up chopping sometimes when I shouldn't in smaller buyin tournaments because I genuinely like the recreational players and they really seem to want it. Other times I do say no, especially when it's obvious someone will torch their stack off pretty fast. Occasionally I negotiate a little extra money for myself beyond an ICM chop.

However in major events when I genuinely would like to chop, the prospect rarely even comes up. You're dealing with sharks and they typically only want to chop if the terms are in their favor.

As for tipping, that's another whole can of worms. There are too many considerations, such as if they are withholding a gratuity from initial buy-ins or not and that kind of thing. Generally I think it's a personal thing that is up to each individual. As one dealer once said, he doesn't know everyones' individual situation. You would expect an independently wealthy rec to tip more than a pro or someone for whom the money means a great deal.

Thanks. I agree about the dealer. Just for clarity, the dealer was talking to me at a later tournament. He had dealt earlier rounds in the one where I didn't chop. The other dealer who stayed late was quite professional. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't out of line thinking that the first dealer's behavior was inappropriate.

I would like to just say, "I don't chop," but that isn't quite true. What is true is that I never ask for or offer chops. When others have offered, I have sometimes agreed mostly because I am short or feel like the other player is as good as I am, but that isn't the norm. What I usually say is, "I like to play" which is true.

Also, if I don't chop, I usually tip slightly more than I otherwise would to compensate a little for the extra time, especially if I win 😀. Not sure what is appropriate though or, honestly, if that should even matter.

Mostly agree with this take. If end of tournament is taking too long regularly floor can tweak the structure or pay dealers a little extra, its not the player's responsibility to look out for the venues operation cost.

Screw the dealers, play your game.

I also typically won't chop in tournaments that are low and mid stakes. I will tell the players why so they won't be upset and my reason is typically because I want to get practice short handed for any future high stakes tournament final table.

The other reason though is that I usually have reads on one or more players and I want to be able to take advantage of the situation and increase my payout.

I will however take chops that are favorable for me money wise in terms of ICM payouts.

One time at Foxwoods many years ago I was the short stack when we were 3 handed and the two leaders asked if I would take $12,000 and they would take $13,000. So I immediately said yes before they could figure out that they were giving me thousands of dollars.

Recently at Mohegan Sun (MS) the Floor came by when we were down to 4 players and asked if we wanted to do an IRS even chop. Thing was there was close to $20,000 left in the total payout and if we eliminated a player then 2nd and 1st place would likely have to pay taxes on the payout because MS would have to file IRS forms (which they must do in the US if the money earned is > $5,000). But here the Floor was saying we would each get slightly less than $5,000 so no IRS forms would be filed. I was in third place at the time with like 700,000 chips and the 4th place player, who was the best at the table, had 600,000. The other two players had 1,400,000 or so chips. Now I pay taxes on all my poker earnings so if I had had 1,400,000 chips I would have said no but the two chip leaders immediately said yes so we all took the even chop.

Many years ago at MS there were 18 players that were being paid. We were down to 17 players and I tried to eliminate a player by going all in on the turn and got sucked out on on the river. I had under 100,000 chips and there were 14 other players between 110,000 and 175,000. The two chip leaders were at over 350,000 chips. And they asked us all if we would chop evenly because they wanted to go home early. Lol. So we all agreed.

There are times I will ICM chop in decent payouts if I have a decent share of the chips (like if I am the chip leader or am in 2nd place). I did it at multi day $600 FW and 330 Euro EPT tournaments when we were down to 2 players. But in a multi day $600 tournament at the Venetian I refused because I was the short stack and my payout would have been close to 3rd place prize money and the guy in 2nd place wanted $2,000 more than the ICM chop amount. So I got eliminated on our first 3-way hand with AQo in the BB vs ATo all in preflop against the 2nd place player when a T came on the flop...

The last thing I will say is that if you pay taxes on all of your tournament poker winnings (like I do) there are times when you can take an over $5,000 payout and everyone else gets a < $5,000 winning amount (taking the buy in into consideration). In these cases the other players will typically give you 20% more than the ICM chop amount because you will have to pay taxes and they won't. One time I asked for 30% (because that was my tax bracket at the time with my wife) but the other players would only give me the 20% bonus (which I did take anyway).

correct on the taxes. it's definitely funny that the floor was like "hey guys wanna do a deal to help you cheat on your taxes?"

I had a similar spot where I'd had a down year, so the winnings would be able to be immediately written off and got paid solidly more than ICM to get the W2G. You betcha.

I am a fan of using chops as another tool in the toolbox for making money in tournaments. For some reason, many players donÂ’t understand icm chopping and I hear complaining that it gives too much to the smaller stacks. ItÂ’s like players not understanding running it more than once.

Knowing what your chips are really worth is the first step to determining if a chop is a good deal for you