$400 WSOPC Final table 3 way SB vs BB

I kinda like limp-jamming if you play it this way. I don't know how wide BB is raising, but a limp/jam could fold some of his weakest Kx or even Ax hands. And with the table situation as it is, the ICM pressure on you isn't too strong - taking a shot with a strong hand to double up through the second-place stack is pretty big for you if it works out.

I guess postflop it's OK to get it in here, but your read of the situation that he's probably got you beat might lead me to play a little more cautiously. I don't think you're folding an overpair or AQ even without a flush draw this effectively shallow.

I agree with Nat. SPR should be around 2 here and without ICM pressure you normally shouldn't fold top pair here. You're probably right that you will be behind often. But mostly it won't be a flush and you'll have outs.

If you think he is polarized and might have tried a small stabb OTF with a hand like 77 or A9s there's also not much point in just calling, since it's unlikely you will win more chips on later streets if your evaluation of the situation is correct.

So what's left I guess is to consider the safe route: What's it worth to preserve about 13-14 BB by calling and then fold to any bet OTT unless a Queen, Jack or 9 falls. You'll still have some FE left of course. But what's the probability you will get a better spot 3-handed than this one before blinded down to under 10 BB?

I do agree you could limp/jam pre or even just open jam out of the SB.

As played, after flopping top pair on a three flush board I think you've just got to get it in and I like your check/jam. It's unfortunate if you ran into a stronger hand, but blind vs blind you just have to get it in here, unless you have some sort of extreme read.

I like limp/ jam or straight jam. Limp
Calling is worst option. You can just get wrecked post. Flop is 258 and villian bets 2bb. What do you do. Kxx or Axx, villian bets 1.5 bb- what do you do?

JQ suited is good enough to go in pre. Prolly like limp jam more than jamming from bb bc you get some folds and 2 more bb. Btw villian should raise here often due to icm pressure. Even 2.5x is prolly good by then instead of 3x

Lot of good and interesting points.

I do limp/jam with some hands. Like 77+/AJ+ and it has worked fairly well to date (though a couple of times the other person jammed with 30+ blinds lol). I didn't do it with 88 when I was shortish stacked here because this guy wasn't raising a lot and I didn't want to play 88 post flop OOP so I just jammed and he folded. Here though I didn't feel comfortable limp/jamming with QJs against this guy because he wasn't raising much BB vs SB. It turned out after this hand he did raise/jam a bit so it could have just been that he didn't have any decent or strong hands the first 5 times I limped.

Here he insta called but his hand was K9o with the K of clubs. So as pointed out by a few of you if I just call here I can't win the max. Even if a 9 comes and I hit my straight he would be checking back the turn and if I jam the turn I doubt he is calling. All other cards he will check if he doesn't improve and if he does improve I would be folding to his jam except maybe a J that wasn't a club. It turns out that we are truly flipping (I had a 49% chance of winning). And I did hold as no club, K or J came.

I was kind of shocked that he had raised with K9o after my limp because its really a GTO/Solver kind of thing and I've seen a ton of Triton tournaments where that's what BB does with a K, Q, or J after a limp by the SB. But this guy didn't strike me as a GTO/Solver or even a loose aggro type.

What I didn't say was that post flop against this guy after I limped SB and he checked preflop in the BB, was we had like 4 hands where we checked it down on every street. I won one with T9o when he had 97o and no pairs. Another hand I won with J4o with no pairs. And one other he won with a Q when there was an A and K on board (and I didn't bluff because I had a J and thought I was going to win again...) So I thought if he checks back preflop and an A or K came on the flop and he bet I would fold and if he didn't bet we might just check it through all streets again. It felt like this would be the safest way to play against this guy. Especially because the Russian woman was aiming at both of us and it looked like she could easily take one of us out (so the other one of us would move up if that happened).

Limp / jam probably folds K9o, just to emphasize the point.

Its an excellent point.

But ironically while I would have won the pot I probably wouldn't have won the tournament.. This hand changed everything and the Russian woman who had so many chips was not raising reasonably. Her opening raises were typically 4x to 5x on the BTN and when she did it soon after this hand against the BB guy, he jammed for basically a little less than triple her bet and she had to call and she lost to him with a really awful hand (like KT but she was facing AQ if I remember correctly). She also folded to my 3-bet jams several times which helped reduce her stack considerably. Then she open jammed in the SB with K3o against me and I looked down at AK and eliminated her.

I didn't mind calling a 3x raise and playing OOP against this guy specifically because he hadn't raised before in the BB and I thought it could go well. His preflop sizing was terrible and I likely would have folded to a 4x or more raise.

I also don't ever limp jam with QJs. Because a lot of the time I am facing hands like AQ/AJ/AK/AT/77+ which won't fold. Even KQ/KJ often doesn't fold in that spot when they have significantly more chips than me.

I like the line you take. The hand plays well post-flop and we face opponents we feel we have an edge over. Based on your read I would never have put him on K9o.

I am not sure how useful it is to discuss the spot in terms of his actual hand, I feel it is better to think in terms of ranges in these threads. I would have put him on the kind of range you mention in the last post, perhaps with the addition of lower pocket pairs and some suited connectors.

Interesting spot, thanks for sharing.

K9o is doing very well against a sb limp. That’s why they raise

I don't like limp/jam with this hand if he hasn't been raising your limps, so I would open jam preflop.

OTF, you have top pair and gutshot, but you don't have good equity if he has one club, so difficult situation.

If you are not shoving this hand you are overestimating your edge. That's a similar logic to just calling with TT/JJ in SB vs button open to see if we can get a favorable flop. The fact that you are an older white guy is only helpful for the purposes of shoving pre, as you can fold out weak Aces and 22-44, something a young Asian for example would not be able to accomplish.

Additionally when you limp you run the risk of BB jamming a low pocket pair or a weak Ace in your face and now you get denied your equity...

When I am the short stack at less than 15 blinds I will often jam QJs basically from any position preflop. When I am the short stack in the SB and it is on me I will sometimes jam with QJs even up to 20 blinds. Just not here. He had not raised in the BB up until this hand so I did not see this type of runout coming. If he had jammed here I would have folded probably because I would have been thinking I was up against a PP (flip or big trouble) or a big A where I would be behind a little or a lot.

There was one other thing that had happened 3 way. I'm pretty sure it was before this hand because after this hand I was never jamming on the BTN preflop. I jammed on the BTN with 64s and less than 12 blinds, he folded in SB and the Russian woman tanked a little and then said she would fold if I showed her my hand. In general I never agree to show my hand in these spots. But here I was like maybe. So I said I would after a moment or so and she showed me her K and then mucked her hand. I showed the 64s and the guy to my left started laughing. So maybe he was raising here to get me to fold my bad hands that would possibly beat him if he checked it back.

I remember a small tournament at Foxwoods (many years ago) when we were down to 3 players and on the bubble. I was BTN and I looked down at QJo. I jammed as the short stack and got called by both of the other players who both had better hands than me. I was mad at myself for not min raising because I likely would have been able to get away from the hand.

Here I was just trying to survive long enough to get a really strong hand that I could double up with. Turned out it was this one.

I think many players fail to recognize that being to the immediate right of the big stack becomes a benefit as the aggressive big stack can only attack your bb from out of position but can attack the other player’s bb from the button and the other player can only attack the big stack bb from the small blind. I try to become a little bit more patient to see if they end up playing a lot of hands putting the other shorter players stack in jeopardy more times than mine, especially with high blinds.

I think sometimes it give us a false sense of control when we take more passive lines. Like if you jam preflop, sure occasionally you just run into aces and lose. However the same sort of thing can happen postflop. He could have just flopped a flush with a hand that would have folded pre if you jammed. Or even in this scenario his K or flush draw could have gotten there.

Just some food for thought. The preflop aggression is mostly about stealing blinds and accumulating chips without showdown.

With 15xBB in the SB, this hand is usually a shove. You can sometimes play it as a limp/shove or raise/call. However, shoving is better based on how villain is playing and the tournament situation.

Limp/call is too passive with such a strong hand and OOP this shallow.

In general, yes, late in tournaments, he want to pick up chips preflop with open shoves, raise/folds, and reraises or raises of limpers.

Without reading any replies:

Hand 1: Tough beat, you did get it in good, and it probably wouldn’t have mattered, but imo close to the money with a good stack in a big buyin tournament isn’t time to get too complicated with AA. If not pf gotta jam flop imo.

Hand 2: Short stack 3handed I jam pf or flop, but again you likely got it in good, and it probably wouldn’t have mattered anyway as you're not folding at any point in the hand.

I hope you won it.

Edit:

this is one of those spots where the math says one thing but reads can change everything. against an unknown id go with the solver answer but if you have a strong read then trust it