Flopped the Nut Straight OOP in Limped Pot

Leading just the naked straight OOP into 6 people with deep SPR is the error because more than 60% of runouts is going to come higher straights board pairs or BDFDs and being OOP with no playability on those they will push you off your hand. So you don’t want to build a pot here without redraws or substantial future street blockers.

Flop: I would check instead of bet but here we are now. You're likely either chopping with him at this point or he's free rolling you. I suppose it's also possible he has a AKQX hand that you're ahead of. Sure you have a backdoor nut flush draw but that's nowhere near enough reason to GII. You have no other redraws. Although he's labeled a fish, idk if a fish is playing 2 pair or a set this way into 5 opponents. Maybe something specifically like set + sd/gutter. Even if he had 99XX it's pretty wild to bluff here. Heads up a bluff could be okay but not here.

Turn: If the turn brought you 5d, I'd feel much more comfortable to just GII and hope you're just free rolling one of them or they're still drawing with a set, AKQX or KQ9X. Unfortunately it was a complete brick completing the rainbow. Still, you might just be chopping with one of them at this point.. but MP's sizing is really weird. Kind of feels like he doesn't have it. I figure he'd bet at minimum 2/3rd with 98XX. He for sure pots with Q98X. Now I'm thinking it's possible he did this on the flop with a set or set + sd/gutter. With CO just calling I highly doubt he has Q98X. Maybe he passively plays a bigger wrap. I think x/r is fine with the lines MP and CO took. x/pot puts you practically all in and you can make sets/draws fold.

River: RIP. It brings one of the 5 cards you didn't want to see (A, K, Q, 9, 8). You now have the 3rd nuts. Check is fine, now MP checks, and CO bets. Could he turn something into a bluff here? Would he bluff with that sizing? Does he value bet 98XX? Do you want to call for a chop? This is just one of those awkward spots that I feel is villain dependent but I likely fold most of the time and just find a better spot. We know from the previous streets he likely didn't have Q98X. But again he could play something like AKQX passively or AQ9X.

Betting flop is a big mistake with naked nuts and so deep. The spr is almost 25, the only hands that will want to start piling money are flipping or crushing us. With this hand my first thought is trying to get to showdown.

River is interesting, we have 2 very relevant blockers. Not blocking any pairs also makes a set more likely. I might find a hero call if I think co is a capable player.

His river size is a bit suspicious. It’s kinda small for AQ: why not bet bigger to get value from Q9?

But it’s kinda big for Q9, why bet that big when you’re trying to valuetown 98/sets and can run into AQ?

It makes perfect sense for a bluff: a random blunt size on a scary card when two players show weakness.

But it’s a thin read to go on and I really like to setup my ranges more intelligently on previous streets in these multi-way pots.

I felt like I underplayed my hand. But y’all are saying I overplayed my hand. I feel so much better!

I’m fairly new to PLO. I’m still trying to switch from a solver to a live mindset.

Solver is terrible with limped pots. It wants me to check-raise the flop and play for stacks with the bare nuts.

I’m not a big fan of check-calling the flop. Rob Yong made fun of Luke Schwartz for check-calling with the bare nuts in a cash game. Other whales notice these passive plays too. It might be mathematically correct, but it doesn’t look good.

The field is mostly fish. I like betting because you get a TON of weak hands and draws to call that first bet. It sucks when someone pots this deep, but it’s not the end of the world.

I really wish I check-raised the turn with a tiny bit over a pot-sized bet left. It was unlikely either player had the nuts plus freeroll at that point. But I got scared and didn’t pull the trigger.

Villain (the one who bet the river) is fishy enough to have some dumpy hand like Q9xx plus a pair. He could also have the bare KQxx draw and bluff the river (sometimes).

If I didn’t have the other villain behind me, I have an easy call on the river. I didn’t like being stuck in between.

Solver does not want you to play 30SPR 4w for stacks here OTF that’s ******ed. **** this is so tilting to read tyou ignored all the good advice in this thread even though you admit you are new to plo. Facepalm.

You almost never want to play for stacks with a bare nut straight no redraw. A lot of times when you GII you're either chopping or they have a redraw and you're praying to chop. Who cares how it looks to the whales. You shouldn't be taking very negative lines just because of them being there.

Although this can be true, you're not going to be happy with over half the runouts that could happen. It's not easy to play OOP to multiple opponents when say the board pairs or a higher straight comes in.

This is where your mistakes started adding up. You bet the flop, get raised, call, then when an extremely clean turn card comes, you don't x/r which would've put you essentially all in when your opponents played this street this way. In most scenarios I likely still just call here. But in this specific situation I think a x/r to pot would've been fine. CO is not playing this passive with the Q98X.. maybe with something like K98X (which he would likely call, but I'm okay with this since he has 4 outs at best or we chop), AKQX, KQXX, etc. MP seems scared to pile money in and only bets half pot. There is a lot of dead money in this pot and you can definitely generate folds and deny equity here to sets or wraps.

You have blockers here so a call wouldn't be horrible. Yeah you downgraded to 3rd nuts but like crimson said, his size is suspicious. It could be a "please call me" bet or he doesn't want to torch too much with a bluff. You say you're worried about villain behind you but why? Do you think he's raising the flop, betting the turn, then checking a better straight he got there with on the river? Unless he somehow knows from the heavens that CO is going to bluff at this he is never taking this line. The amount of value he loses when CO just checks back is massive.

If MP (fish) overcalls with the same straight, it reduces the profitability of me trying to bluff catch CO.

That's true, but if you're MP with 98XX then would you feel better or worse when it comes to call in his spot? When BB x, he x, CO bet, then BB calls do you think he calls with 98XX now? He's never going to think he's good there. He knows he's chopping at best.

Yep, +1

As you said, it's a weak read, and too many live players either don't put enough thought into river sizing, or put the wrong thoughts into it, so I don't think we can significantly discount the nuts. On top of that, multiway spots are significantly underbluffed live.

This is a great example of a spot where a solver vs solver strat loses significantly against deploying poker theory primarily. A solver that takes into account population reads against live players would not advocate for c/ring the flop.

Disregard what ANY high profile poker player - apparently good or not - says about the play of another, unless they're doug polk or you have other good reason to give them your trust proxy. Rob Yong has not earnt your trust proxy. He is a big fish and rates to lose in most lineups; Luke Schwartz might be a colossal c*** but he's a far better player than Rob Yong.

Particularly in a multiway spot, the absence of someone holding a hand like the nuts plus a redraw in this spot is not license to get it in. You don't have to play around with ranges very long here to find many spots where, even on a rainbow board, you're not doing great. EG: one guy has the bare 89, no redraw, but the other has KQJT. In the spots where you're up against a single other 89 and one other person with a live redraw to beat you, on the turn, you've probably always got the equity to c/r, but you don't need to be up against, say, one guy with the straight and a redraw, and another guy with a different draw, before you're really suffering hard, too hard to justify cramming all the money in.

On top of that, live players do weird, bad things on the river, including underbluffing, overcalling, not paying attention to blockers, being inelastic to sizing, etc. You can consider these as revenue streams. When you go all-in on the turn, you pick up some benefits, such as removing the possibility you'll get bluffed, and equity denial, but that doesn't add up to what you're losing when you don't give them a chance to misplay their range on another street.

You do not have an easy call on the river if it's heads up. There are no missed flush draws, no missed wraps, and people like to check when they have showdown value here, which they will do incredibly frequently. Is he capable of turning QQJT into a bluff, if he gets here with all those combos? Perhaps, but not frequently enough to warrant that. I'd say you have an easy fold, in fact, given some players will find a value bet with the 2nd nuts too.