Looking for a Good Solver That's Inexpensive
PLO Mastermind is king. That's what I hear. But $199 per month is a bit much.
I trained 50,000 hands on Omaha Poker Training last year ($29.97 per month for six months). It was ok. I had to break some bad habits that I learned.
I've been analyzing hands on FlopHero for a year. For $29.99 per month, it's not bad.
But I'm frustrated with its lack of bet-sizing options in multi-way pots. You're limited to:
-Half Pot and Pot on the flop
-Pot on the turn
-Pot on the river
Is there an inexpensive solver that does a better job with multi-way? How's MonkerSolver?
You want to study Preflop or postflop in priority ? PlO genius is a not bad and not expensive
Multi-way post-flop.
It is more than a bit much, it is outrageously priced. JNandez is more of a hustler than people want to admit, at least with words. The PLO forum here use to be full of people chatting about hands with PLO Mastermind/Trainer when it cost a lot less. As the price went up and then up again, people stopped discussing hands much with that product.
But I'm frustrated with its lack of bet-sizing options in multi-way pots. You're limited to:
-Half Pot and Pot on the flop
-Pot on the turn
-Pot on the river
To be brutally honest, humans are not as skilled as they think they are when given multiple bet sizing on a street. It is the truth. That one sizing one the turn/river is still giving you a solver approved solution. And it is solution a human can actually handle. And in many cases the EV of only using one sizing is similar enough to having multiple sizing, especially when the reality of a human making errors with multiple sizes is factored in.
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I am however not trying to bring the discussion to a close. If look forward to anyone mentioning a reasonably priced product.
PLO Mastermind is king. That's what I hear. But $199 per month is a bit much.I trained 50,000 hands on Omaha Poker Training last year ($29.97 per month for six months). It was ok. I had to break some bad habits that I learned.I've been analyzing hands on FlopHero for a year. For $29.99 per month, it's not bad.But I'm frustrated with its lack of bet-sizing options in multi-way p
What? 199??? I remember something like 99, or cheaper for annual subscriptions. 199 is way too much.
Ok so those of you who are crying about the price clearly don't understand product value nor are thinking of poker like a business.
One the surface $199 monthly (which is cheaper than vision btw 😀 seems steep but let's evaluate what we get with it.
1. full access to tons of solver outputs resulting in quick efficient study vs monker
2. Amazing support. I don't care how you feel about Jnandez himself but his team, especially Luuk, is always on top of things.
3. An interface built from scratch that allows for clear, easy take aways.
When you're paying for one of these Trainers you're basically paying for the interface and to save time. Running your own sims, especially multiway, with monker can take a while. Compared to Trainer it's night and day.
And for the record I don't even use Trainer that often but have to give credit where due.
^^^ written like an PLO Mastermind employee. When someone goes that deep in the paint, you have to take their post with a grain of salt.
^^^ written like an PLO Mastermind employee. When someone goes that deep in the paint, you have to take their post with a grain of salt.
And yours is spoken like someone who lives and will die w/ an amateur approach and who also doesn't understand product value, nor has ever ran a business.
I enjoy trying to help people, simple as that. And sometimes helping is being direct, not sugar coating.
Not even close to an employee but cute response!
And yours is spoken like someone who lives and will die w/ an amateur approach and who also doesn't understand product value, nor has ever ran a business.
I enjoy trying to help people, simple as that. And sometimes helping is being direct, not sugar coating.
Not even close to an employee but cute response!
This response makes you sound like you now have sand in your vagina.
Enjoy living at plo50 lol. So stupid and you don't even know it.
I don't really play online. Does PLO Mastermind/Trainer have much usefulness for mid-to-high stakes live?
Ok so those of you who are crying about the price clearly don't understand product value nor are thinking of poker like a business.One the surface $199 monthly (which is cheaper than vision btw 😀 seems steep but let's evaluate what we get with it. 1. full access to tons of solver outputs resulting in quick efficient study vs monker2. Amazing support. I don't care how you feel
^^^ written like an PLO Mastermind employee. When someone goes that deep in the paint, you have to take their post with a grain of salt.
You're both right and you're both wrong.
The amount of money charged for poker training has never been tied to the cost of production (other than some coaches who calculate their price based on the hourly they'd be making playing), only the value it produces. Which means that those already winning and at higher stakes will be able to make most use of it, and lower stakes players are faced with a difficult choice of whether to take the gamble. This is, in effect, price gouging, or profiteering. It may well be the case that for some (not all) paying the higher price is worth it, but that doesn't mean the higher price is justified.
Thinking about poker as a business partly entails not supporting other predatory business practices.
Thinking about poker as a business does not entail looking at your potential business partners' pricing structure and forgetting the long-term effects of being willing to pay that higher price just because they're asking for more. They're going to keep on asking for more until you're paying the maximum you're willing. That's a bad way to negotiate and is clearly a business practice between unequal partners. I can't remember whether it was on Billions or Succession where they said: 'never buy anything from someone that's richer than you'.
In theory, pressure from competition should keep prices down, but you can't police private messages and even if coaches and training sites weren't in explicit cahoots with each other, they can form an implied cartel where they tacitly agree to follow the maxim of 'charge the maximum the customer is willing to pay' rather than competing with each other in a price war that sees them racing to the bottom. The reason we don't see that dynamic play out in the real world is because it doesn't work. By supporting dodgy business practices, by being unable to see past the end of our noses, we allow ourselves to be milked on every street.
Wazzy, look above. The bitch came into this thread with the first sentence accusing people of crying. Plain and simple. This is what people have to face and why there are less contributors than if people were not saying others were crying for voicing an opinion. Then the bitch proceeded to write an infomercial that I pointed out read like a PLO Mastermind employee. The bitch didn't liked being called out, although the bitch started the hostility in the first sentence posted in thread and got her panties in a bunch. And while her panties were in a bunch clearly got sand in her vagina.
Wazzy, look above. The bitch came into this thread with the first sentence accusing people of crying. Plain and simple. This is what people have to face and why there are less contributors than if people were not saying others were crying for voicing an opinion. Then the bitch proceeded to write an infomercial that I pointed out read like a PLO Mastermind employee. The bit
Nah, bro, you escalated. 'Crying about the price' is hardly a provocative statement. You're right, and he could have picked a better word, but you still escalated where you didn't need to. You're now the one calling him a bitch, after saying he has sand in his vagina (get better insults) and accusing him of being a shill simply because he was defending a business practice. He called you stupid and an amateur, and it remains to be seen whether you're not those two things. If you want to play that game, you're going to lose. Take the win.
Nah, bro, you escalated. 'Crying about the price' is hardly a provocative statement. You're right, and he could have picked a better word, but you still escalated where you didn't need to. Take the win.
Threads on 2+2 die because of posters like him. The majority suffer in silence because after some bitch starts saying that people are crying about something, then no one posts their opinion. The win is for calling him out on it. "For evil to succeed all a good person has to do is nothing." I'll call him out 10 out of 10 times.
Threads on 2+2 die because of posters like him. The majority suffer in silence because after some bitch starts saying that people are crying about something, then no one posts their opinion. The win is for calling him out on it. "For evil to succeed all a good person has to do is nothing." I'll call him out 10 out of 10 times.
At this point I'm questioning my own take if it's the same as yours. It's embarrassing to hear someone launch an attack on someone else and then claim they're a hero for calling someone out on their evil. Go fight capitalism and climate change, not a dude on a poker forum trying to justify high prices. Your source of self-virtue is misplaced. It is not your responsibility to police 2+2. But at least you're following the pattern set by police by actually making the problem worse rather than better
I've watched some of JNandez's livestream content on YouTube. FWIW, I don't think PLO Mastermind/Trainer is a scam. If you get a 12-month subscription on Black Friday for ~$1,400, you might be getting good value.
I hate that it's expensive. But he's really good and doesn't have much competition for PLO training. He's allowed to charge high prices.
Personally, I don't like training videos. They're boring. And they overanalyze everything.
I prefer hands-on sims. For NLH, PokerSnowie has a great training sim. It has a high ante feature which creates more multi-way pots. It also has good bet-sizing options for multi-way pots: quarter-pot, half-pot, full-pot, and 2x-pot or all-in.
I used PokerSnowie for 10 years. Technology is supposed to double every 2 years. I thought PLO solvers (being more CPU intensive) would've caught up to NLH solvers by now. Perhaps there isn't enough demand.
For PLO training, I've been playing 2c/5c on Ignition and uploading hands to FlopHero for analysis. Again, the lack of multi-way bet-sizing options is super frustrating (a min bet is considered a full-pot bet). But for ~$250 per year, it's not a bad solver (I'm still trying to find something better!).
This is like a fax of an oil painting of a black and white photo of the truth. For a while, processor speed followed Moore's Law which stated that it has a double life of 2 years, and different types of production processes have experienced similar patterns, but it's never a hard pattern of economics or tech or anything and CPU processor speed was delinked from Moore's Law a while back I believe. Different production processes never actually follow an exponential, they just appear to sometimes due to network effects, but given 'infinite processing power' is not possible, much like it's not possible to have infinite economic growth on a finite planet, it is never actually exponential and must always delink itself from that pattern at some point.
This is like a fax of an oil painting of a black and white photo of the truth. For a while, processor speed followed Moore's Law which stated that it has a double life of 2 years, and different types of production processes have experienced similar patterns, but it's never a hard pattern of economics or tech or anything and CPU processor speed was delinked from Moore's Law a wh
Agreed. Just saying 10 years is a long time for us to still not have enough CPU for good PLO solvers.
The big problem is that the mainstream computer always needed more RAM, so everyone kept investing to make it bigger/cheaper, until around 8-10 years ago when 8-16GB was the high end and that was kind of "good enough" for most people and then most of the investment stopped.
The big problem is that the mainstream computer always needed more RAM, so everyone kept investing to make it bigger/cheaper, until around 8-10 years ago when 8-16GB was the high end and that was kind of "good enough" for most people and then most of the investment stopped.
Right, the limit could be demand / use cases rather than a physical limitation of the technology. It seems there is a demand for processing power to increase, though. But no-one at the consumer level needs more than 32 gigs - almost by definition anyone who needs higher is a professional.
Wazzy, look above. The bitch came into this thread with the first sentence accusing people of crying. Plain and simple. This is what people have to face and why there are less contributors than if people were not saying others were crying for voicing an opinion. Then the bitch proceeded to write an infomercial that I pointed out read like a PLO Mastermind employee. The bit
Look pussy, just cause you can't afford to invest in yourself doesn't mean the product is too expensive. You've clearly been flipping burgers your whole life and have never ran a business.
Businesses cost money to operate. It also takes a ton of time to run sims at a low volatility which is time they need to pay employees.
I don't know how to explain it more clear to someone who's as slow as you.
Also you don't get to decide wha's too expensive or not, the market does. Welcome to capitalism bitch.
You're both right and you're both wrong.The amount of money charged for poker training has never been tied to the cost of production (other than some coaches who calculate their price based on the hourly they'd be making playing), only the value it produces. Which means that those already winning and at higher stakes will be able to make most use of it, and lower stakes players
Can you prove the amount being charged isn't tied to cost of production? It's not the only direct tie but it definitely goes into the forumula. Not sure how on earth you think otherwise.
Also this isn't price gouging. I can tell you're against capitalism (even though it isn't true capitalism in play).
Valuing your time and expenses (which you all seem to be missing here) isn't predatory behavior. You have no idea the cost to run his business, nor Galfond's, etc.
Your last statement is too far into consipracy for me to touch on.
Truth is , like all professional tools used for business, these tools don't come cheap. If you don't like the price don't buy it but crying about how much a business charges for their own product is absolutely batshit insane to me.
