Two nuts. Folding? Plo double bomb pot

I have about 1000$ and the other players something like that

Posters list their 4 ranks, but I seldom see people list their 4 suits. About a year ago around here there was a poster trying to get people to list everything if they wanted a quality response. I guess it didn't stick. Well, flush blockers are a thing. Even more so in bomb pots where there are two boards.

If you to want to pay a hustler $999 for a "Mastering Double Board Bomb Pots" course, go for it. But as a a human trying to play bomb pots "reasonably" well you could pot it here with the nuts on both boards especially if at least one board contains any type of re-draw to a better nuts. The first board has a straight re-draw and backdoor flush draw. The straight re-draw contain nut and non-nut outs. The backdoor flush draw is only the fourth nuts so clearing out others with higher backdoor flush draws would be helpful. My best suggestion is to think of this game as a split pot game like for example Omaha high low which many PLO players have probably played at least a little bit. Whatever instincts you have about navigating that split pot game, like when to push or pull, bring to this game.

In the Poker Blogs & Goals section, Zefa's thread has a picture of a $51,000 double board bomb pot that crushed his soul, plus it is a damn good blog all around.

Well folding is out of the question- not sure why that is in your comment. I don’t think leading pot is the best play. We are too deep with too much money behind and can only get in $90.

I’m check raising most of the time or leading half pot which someone could raise and we just back raise. We are gonna hate a lot of turns so ether keep pot small or try and get in as much money on the flop as possible. Going pot just telegraphs your hand so they can play perfectly against us. If you check raise you can get at least half your money in which is fantastic. If we half pot and a crap turn comes we can just give up and only lose $55 or we get lucky and someone raises our half pot. I can’t imagine anyone ever raising a full pot unless they have the super nuts.

I wish they had a game with only double board pots. I love this format.

Phrases can mean different things to different people. If I say "lockdown board" what are most of you guys thinking. All same suit? Okay. Paired board even with a flush draw? Okay. But do the straight boards have to be rainbow to be lockdown? These two boards are straight boards but have a flush draw. I include flush draw straight boards in what I would call a "lockdown board."

These two boards are lockdown boards. And they are similar. It isn't as though one of the boards was JJ2. The boards are similar so there is only a small core of hands that could bet. You have it all. In my opinion you are going to have to do the betting here on these similar lockdown boards because the majority of your opponents would love to check and see the turn for free. So I don't like the line of trying to check-raise here as these double boards could get checked through on the flop. Missing a street worth of betting when deep can be a lot of lost money. More on this below.

I was writing my original post around the time Tom6 updated his thread with the stack sizes and I was working on the theory that stack sizes were left off of post and I wrote to use a POT sized bet because many games live are played deeper that online. I wrote bet POT and djevans wrote bet 1/2 POT. The answer is almost exactly in the middle with $1,000 starting stacks if my math below is right.

The boards are locked down similarly. Even someone with hole cards of A88/A77 for set and nut flush draw to one board might not bet because the damn board is a straight. No one is going to do the betting for you. You are 200bb or $1,000 deep. If you want to play deep you have to build pots usually across multiple street. Guys check my math below, I think I got it right. Bet $70 on flop. If it goes heads up to the turn...

preflop $90 bomb pot
flop $90 total pot + you bet $70 + $70 from one caller
turn $230 total pot + you bet $230 + $230 from one caller
river $690 total pot + you bet $690 + $690 from one caller

$10 + $70 + $230 + $690 = $1,000 and you got you whole stack in if my damn math didn't fail me. Most people sit at a live table bored off their ass even when in a hand. It is up to you to try and reverse engineer how much to bet to setup a river shove. With a 200bb+ stack it is hard to do if you skip a street. So if you have something on the flop you might have to start betting.

Continued
Flop.I pot 90, big blind mini raise to 200 next player call 200 the others fold and button go all in about 900$. And it's my turn
Thoughts?

Call it whatever you want but both boards Will have plenty of terrible runouts for your current hands. We we have one redraw for half. We're in the worst possible position. We are playing a nine way pot he spr is nine. Please check and see what happens.

When someone posts a AAxx hand on this forum it usually because they lost. Even with the best starting hand you don't win every time. With you writing "fold?" in the title this smells like a thread where you lost while flopping the nuts on both boards. I hope the readers here don't get results oriented. Let me try a different way of presenting this and I'll use AAxx.

Three players are sitting at a table and go all-in preflop blind. If they went in blind preflop, then they all have about 33% equity. You flip you hand over and see AAxx. It isn't 33% equity for everyone anymore. It is about 46% equity for you and 27% equity for each of the other two players. You captured a lot of equity from the other players. Instead of 33% - 33% - 33% it is now you way ahead at 46% - 27% - 27%. Come on we all have seen this example. Let's do it one more time, but with four players going in blind. That means equity of 25% - 25% - 25% - 25%. You flip over AAxx and now you are way ahead of the other three players with equities of about 34% - 22% - 22% - 22%. The equity shifts are ****ing huge.

Now on to the OP's situation of 9 handed bomb pot which means blind random preflop hands to the flop with the equity of everyone starting out at 11% - 11% - 11% - 11% - 11% - 11% - 11% - 11% - 11%. You flop the nuts on both boards with a re-draw to a higher straight and a backdoor flush draw on one of the boards. The equity shifts are ****ing huge. Before you make any type of adjustments by the way people are willing or not willing to get involved and instead keep everyone random, you are something like,

example #1 (low end equity capture) you took 1% of equity from everyone and the equity for the nine players are now 19% - 10% - 10% - 10% - 10% - 10% - 10% - 10% - 10%. The equity shifts are ****ing huge.

example #2 (more accurate) you took 2%+ of equity from everyone and the equity for the nine players are now 27% - 8% - 8% - 8% - 8% - 8% - 8% - 8% - 8%. The equity shifts are ****ing huge.

If someone in the hand shows a willingness to get it in on the flop, then what is most likely happening is they have a good hand too and you and them are crushing everyone else and the equity for the nine players is something like you tied with the other person and the two of you are crushing everyone else about 25.5% - 25.5% - 7% - 7% - 7% - 7% - 7% - 7% - 7%. And actually you are probably slightly ahead. The only cooler hand for you is if the have the same two straights as you with a flush draw. That is one hell of a cooler. Move on with the rest of your life. And that cooler is balanced out like I said you being slightly ahead of this other person on average. And way ahead of them if they are only playing one board or some other mistake. They percentages go even higher after more than half the field fold and a disproportionate amount of it goes to you and the other good hand

I gave the AAxx examples with three or four players because it is easier to see than a nine way example, but no matter the example, the equity shifts are ****ing huge.

You are deep, which means higher SPR, but that isn't a reason to not bet the flop. As mentioned in my previous post, the best way to leverage your 200bb by the river is to bet the flop for about $70. And if anyone wants to get it in on the flop against your nuts on both boards then fist pump get it in. If you are results oriented on the times you lose then all of this post about your huge equity advantage over the field and even against another good hand, then oh well, only play AAxx with an equity advantage. Also maybe stop playing deep.

You should usually not bet any hand from the sb in a 9 way pot.

I gave the equities for nine people going to the flop. We can build off of the nine player stuff I wrote before and narrow it down to four player with you strong, the BU strong, the min raiser medium and the caller weak. The nine player equities go disportionately to you and the BU with you slightly ahead of everything except his one cooler of you. First, you are ahead even if he has A88x or A77x with a set on each board and the nut flush draw on one board. You are ahead. The two of you absolutely crush the two boards and the other two players don't increase much in equity from when it was still nine handed. So like you 45%, BU 40% and other two player stuck at like 7.5% - 7.5% each. You don't always win with AAxx and you don't always win here either, you win about 45% of the time. I can't help anyone being result oriented. That is best case scenario for BU besides the cooler which I will get to in a moment. If the BU screwed up and is over playing a one board hand then you equity goes up a lot. And not only if the BU is playing one board. If the BU is playing 88xx or 77xx without the flush draw and thinks his sets on both boards are great on a straight board, then he is mistaken big time and you have about 50% equity. There are four people in the hand and you would win half the time. You are somewhat/slightly ahead if he has A88x or A77x with the flush draw on one board and you are absolutely crushing everyone if the BU doesn't have the flush draw on one board to go with the sets on each board. Now on to the cooler. The cooler is if BU has the same two nut straight as you on each board plus a flush draw. In that case the BU is the one winning about 50% of the time and you winning about 35% of the time.

You face one cooler of AJT9 for same straights as you plus the flush draw. But that cooler is canceled out by you being somewhat ahead of some hands and way ahead of people thinking their hand is better than it is. Anyone with 88xx or 77xx for sets on both boards without a flush draw probably thinks their hands are better than they are. Bring up thread after thread of double bomb pots and you will see people getting it in again and again worse than they think.

So my numbers started with all nine players having about 11% equity and now we are down to four players and the most common results of equities by far are about,

You 45%, BU 40%, other play one 7.5%, other player two 7.5% (BU with 88xx or 77xx with flush draw)

You 50%+, BU 25%, other player one 10%, other player two 10% (BU with 88xx or 77xx without flush draw)

You 30%, BU 50%, other player one 10%, other player two 10% (BU coolers you with JT9x with flush draw for same straights as you)

Besides one cooler, you are on average comfortably ahead. People fist bump get AAxx in preflop. Against the average player tendencies of double bomb pot players you are in great shape here and damn sure should not be folding this flop (and I'm not hating on anyone that doesn't want to initiate the betting out of position) but no matter how the betting goes down, you are equity king most of the time.

Not everyone plays split pot games so I thought I would bring up a point many may not understand in the scenario bolded above.

Scenario 1 you win in the long run.

Scenario two you win in the long run.

Scenario three you win in the long run. Wait what?! Ah ha. In a split pot game you can get "quartered" and still break even or win money if there are enough players in the hand. When last the OP left the details there were four players in the hand and we need 25% equity to break even. We can get coolers/quarter by a player having the same straights as us on both board and a flush draw on one board and the flush comes in a we get quartered and we still win money or break even because enough other players contributed to the split pot game.

Please don't fold this flop as the title asked. In the long run it is basically, win a medium amount, win a large amount or win a tiny amount. Win, win and win.