Aria 5/5/10 "Optional Straddle" is it optional or not?
I played at Aria the pat 3 week and a few of the tables were OK with an optional straddle. I had planned to play 5 5 10 my fist month there after talking to the floor people they told me I don't need to straddle ever single hand, and it's optional and not to let the players there bully me. This was much easier said than done!
However, after playing there from day 1, I was basically bullied by a number of people there. I had to listen to negativity day in and day out about people complaining that I wasn't straddling every hand.
I wish they would just put it on the board rather than tell people it's a 5/5 game and then have many of the pros expect you to straddle or they will complain, leave the game, and a few would even talk **** about you or bully you at the table.
Why not just say this is a 5/5/10/20 game. Then maybe have a different game that's 5/5/10. They never tried to start a 10/20 table. I'm guessing they want to save money on rake, like an extra dollar.
Maybe I would challenge others to play there and stick with the structure for 30 days or more of 5/5/10 and report how did it go.
Last week one day when I sat down and I said I won't straddle every single hand, 5 of the pros left the game. One pro and I stayed and played an optional straddle game with the recreational player. 20 minutes later, the table filled up and was amazing action. II guess the games are pretty good there, since all the regulars want to "straddle", meaning they expect you to do it every hand, or at the least people get upset if you don't do it regularly.
Not everyone can afford to play 10/20. The other lowest limit is 1/2. It makes sense that a 5/10 game would be available.
They also have a 25/25 game there. I can't imagine how much animosity, complaining or bullying one might encounter for sitting and not straddling in that game over a 30-day period. Although I might be wrong.
I'm certainly open minded if someone can offer up some decent feedback but for now that's what I experienced the past 3 weeks.
It's good that they have a lot of PLO going. I like playing there. I think in the future I'll straddle at least for the foreseeable future if the whole table is doing it, as I find that the game was a "recipe for animosity" after several weeks of playing, if you didn't straddle, for my experience. To be fair, I straddled there a lot. I straddled without asking everyone else to it. Otherwise, if I require the entire table to straddle if I put out a single straddle it’s not really a “straddle” in some sense. That’s raising the stakes to 5/5/10/20.
I felt like some of the recreational players were being scammed in a way. Because they buy in to play what’s on the board and they were pressured in to thinking it’s a “straddle game” but it’s just doubled the stakes on them. A few people thanked me for not straddling so they would be able to not do it without any pressure.
I was in Macau a month ago and the same situation came up. There was a table of 50/100 HKD, and they not everyone wants to straddle. They simply made 2 lists: 50/100 and 50/100 200 straddle. Genius! They were super chill no pressure, but not many games running unfortunately.
Thanks!
I was in the exact same situation last year wsop series. I don’t give a hoot about the bullying. I buy in short stacked and have no inclination to make my buy-in less valuable by adding a straddle.
The optional straddle is the 20 after 10.
If the rest of the table is straddling and youre not its not rly an issue of you not straddling as much as its an issue of you taking advantage of everyone else straddling and not doing the same. I dunno if Id be verbally accosting you for not straddling outside of maybe one "oh youre not straddling? We all are" but it certainly would impact my impression of you as a person. While I definitely see how one would look at it as false advertising and maybe a bit predatory, I think the better option would be to just go play 1/2 than to be the only one not straddling. Or just straddle..
If the rest of the table is straddling and youre not its not rly an issue of you not straddling as much as its an issue of you taking advantage of everyone else straddling and not doing the same. I dunno if Id be verbally accosting you for not straddling outside of maybe one "oh youre not straddling? We all are" but it certainly would impact my impression of you as a person. Wh
1/2 wouldn't work for me. My travel expenses are way too high. I came for the 5 5 10 but that didn't go well at all as I talked about in my post.
When I throw out a straddle at a tight table and only one other person is straddling with me, does that mean I should look down on the other 6 people that didn't do it?
Most of the good games have people straddling without asking every body at the table to do it because some guy put out one straddle, he's so tight and he can't stand the thought of actually putting out a real straddle.
I don't consider it straddling when the whole table is doing it. I call that doubling the stake of the game. This just attracts very nit kind of players and some action players also. But the action players usually don't mind straddling and won't complain if the whole table isn't doing it.
I put out a lot, possibly 100 or more straddles the past 6 months, when the whole table wasn't doing it. I'm certainly not taking advantage of anyone. That's absurd. The tight players always stop right away 90% of the time if I just missed only one straddle. It's actually part of the reason I decided to straddle. Aside from the bullying, complaining, and negativity I had to encounter, I also was kind of frustrated that the majority of the people complaining were the biggest nits in the entire poker room. Just because they "straddle" when the whole table does it, that makes them an action player? I don't think so.
I also decided to change my approach because I wanted to straddle. I just thought I could chill and play 5/10 for awhile but apparently I didn't realize that wasn't very realistic. at this poker room. : )
If the rest of the table is straddling and youre not its not rly an issue of you not straddling as much as its an issue of you taking advantage of everyone else straddling and not doing the same. I dunno if Id be verbally accosting you for not straddling outside of maybe one "oh youre not straddling? We all are" but it certainly would impact my impression of you as a person. Wh
What about when I'm at a table that isn't mandatory straddling, and then the pros come in and start trying to get the table to do it.
Is that appropriate?
I would have a great game going sometimes and then these 5/510/20 regulars come in and they are like, let's Straddle. Acting as if they are some kind of action player. And it's like a broken record. I said, it's an optional straddle. Then they keep asking. It's like they don't respect the actual structure at the place.
I'm asking cause it's a different situation than if I come in and the whole table is "straddling" my default would be to do it as long as everyone was being cool. Which as I said earlier, some weren't (being cool)
For 2 weeks. I played mostly 1-2 and typically beat the game. When I figured I was ready, I'd step up to the 5-5-10, and TBH it took some serious inner processing to make the step up. So I don't need a bunch of players who are used to the higher stakes hurling abuse at me for a very personal stretch decision I just made. They don't know me or my situation. or anyone else's. I'd get such serious abuse for not straddling, and I cared nought. The earlier comment that it reflects on the "type of person" is laughable. Just ask my mum.
Bottom line, I'm pro choice.
For 2 weeks. I played mostly 1-2 and typically beat the game. When I figured I was ready, I'd step up to the 5-5-10, and TBH it took some serious inner processing to make the step up. So I don't need a bunch of players who are used to the higher stakes hurling abuse at me for a very personal stretch decision I just made. They don't know me or my situation. or anyone else's. I'
Awesome!
What about when I'm at a table that isn't mandatory straddling, and then the pros come in and start trying to get the table to do it.Is that appropriate? I would have a great game going sometimes and then these 5/510/20 regulars come in and they are like, let's Straddle. Acting as if they are some kind of action player. And it's like a broken record. I said, it's an optiona
I mean in that circumstance just straddle once other ppl are and dont when other ppl arent???I think youre thinking too much into this. PLO players are typically chiller than nl anyways so theres that
I mean in that circumstance just straddle once other ppl are and dont when other ppl arent???I think youre thinking too much into this. PLO players are typically chiller than nl anyways so theres that
It might make life easier for me for sure.
I thought if I was being courteous in their game to straddle when I come in if they all doing it, it's fair if they don't come into my game and complain about it when we were following the intended structure of the game at the venue.
They probably figure that they can make more money if they get everyone to straddle, so there is always some higher stakes guys in there pushing for a straddle at all times, because they figure it increases their win rate.
I guess your point makes a lot of sense though. To make life easier and simple. I might as well just embrace the 10/20 mindset if I had the bankroll to play that high. If I was on a 5/10 bankroll I guess I would be out of luck though. It would be too stressful to play there and I would have to find another place to play. 1/2 is too low to make it worth my time.
This probably makes the games tougher over time also, IMO. It attracts 10/20 players and thus makes the game tougher to beat. Some of those guys play 25 25 50 so I can see why they think the 5 5 10 game would be too small for them.
Maybe it has been mentioned but the guy to the left of the whale straddles half the hands in a rock game. Seat change button please.
For 2 weeks. I played mostly 1-2 and typically beat the game. When I figured I was ready, I'd step up to the 5-5-10, and TBH it took some serious inner processing to make the step up. So I don't need a bunch of players who are used to the higher stakes hurling abuse at me for a very personal stretch decision I just made. They don't know me or my situation. or anyone else's. I'
"They don't know me or my situation. or anyone else's."
I told the guy that I can't afford to play that high and he told me I should play 1/2.
Well to your point, my son had been in the ER the past week when I finally reported what I considered to be the biggest bully in the poker room after dealing with a fair amount of negativity over around 3 weeks.
I depleted most of my savings on hospital expenses from the baby ER and also from when he was born back in August.
They have absolutely no empathy towards you if you're in a bad situation or not.
As far as what I saw. I think it's. small percentage that would be really toxic to deal with but if that adds up to 10 people a month that can take a toll on you psychologically if you're playing there a lot.
"They don't know me or my situation. or anyone else's."I told the guy that I can't afford to play that high and he told me I should play 1/2.Well to your point, my son had been in the ER the past week when I finally reported what I considered to be the biggest bully in the poker room after dealing with a fair amount of negativity over around 3 weeks.I depleted most of my saving
I’m sorry about your son and hope he has fully recovered.
I’m also sorry to hear that the bullying impacts you. I offer a few mindset options to process it differently.
1. I despise bullying in general and it’s been a long time since I’ve been able to throw a punch at a bully. This is the closest I’ll get to a bit of payback and TBH I get a big kick out of it.
2. Whenever a B says to me “straddle” I say “sure”. Then when I end up not straddling and they throw their toys out the cot I say “my bad, I thought you were asking me if it was ok if you straddle”. That really gets them riled up.
3. It often throws the Bs off their game leading to poor play / decisions. That’s fun to watch.
Hope this provides a bit of a different perspective to handle the straddle nazis.
Floor will fix verbal abuse as soon as requested.
I can’t comment on NLE players as I haven’t played that game in yonks. But the PLO straddle nazis are downright abusive and anything but chill.
couldn't agree more with this post and also the OG.
i played a ton at Aria, will be there in a few weeks again for a stretch, and i probably know all the abusive pros you talk about ... what a bunch of a**holes they are.
why they do it? it's a mixture, part power play, simply dominating other people, also like "i own the room, my rules" bla bla ... and of course most of them are better players with bigger bankrolls, this way they try to find out if the higher stakes (bc thats what it is, nothing else, it effectivly a 5-5-10-20 game at that point) intimidate you, and use this in game to their advantage. One asian guy in particular, he also always has a huge stack, even if he's not winning in that session, gets in more chips all the time beyond the table limit to cover everybody else (more intimidation), it's actually pretty easy to accomplish (for example when you table change, just put in another 1 or 2 1K chips on your rack).
my strategy against it:
1. i don't give a ****, if i don't want to straddle, i don't ... and i make it very clear if someone tries to bully me what i think about that ... it usually stops pretty quickly.
2. also, it often only needs one guy to be open and adamant about it, and all of a sudden you have 1 or 2 more guys who are happy that someone came out ... bc they also don't like the straddle.
3. sometimes i agree to the straddle, when i manage to run up a big stack myself (bigger than 5K, with 2K original buy in), especially when there's a fish/big whale on the table who wants the straddle, bc i like to keep him in the game.
all in all: it takes 2 to bully, one doing the bullying, one taking it ... just remember that.
good luck guys.
I've played in that game a few times and never felt bullied, but I'm a woman, I'm always drinking and having fun, and I don't care if they bully me so I probably don't even notice. Also, I love it when they go north. More money on the table. It's not a game for the faint of heart, that's for sure, but if you don't want to straddle, don't do it. Just joke about it and keep having fun. If you don't enjoy the people/game, don't play in it -- I can't imagine sitting in a game I don't enjoy.
I'll be there in a couple of weeks, too. Nov. 30 - Dec. 6. Will definitely be playing PLO at Aria.
on a (not unimportant) side note:
pretty sure often times there is cheating going on in these games, especially when a certain group of players is in the game ... they are all good players, they always try to sit next to each other, and i have witnessed lots of situations where one of them gives like an "assist" to another player in the game (if you know what i mean). and of course i don't know what other means they have figured out to pass information about hands around to each other ...
now, i have no evidence for this, so this is all allegedly (to be legally correct), and solely based on my opinion, but as i said before, i played there a ton, and when this particular group is in the game together, i either switch the table, and if that is not possible, i simply don't play in that game ... so it's a strong suspicion based on a huge sample size
I've played in that game a few times and never felt bullied, but I'm a woman, I'm always drinking and having fun, and I don't care if they bully me so I probably don't even notice. Also, I love it when they go north. More money on the table. It's not a game for the faint of heart, that's for sure, but if you don't want to straddle, don't do it. Just joke about it and keep havin
we most likely have played together ... :-)
all the best for your trip.
re. this:
1. yes, more money on the table is great.
2. but: doing it by "going north" is not just a cavaliers delict, it's simple cheating imo
look at it like this: a fish got lucky and won a big pot. obv i wanna cover him, so i can take his whole stack ... but if i just came to the table, or haven't manage to win some pots, i'm not able to do that.
those guys though can, bc they go north all the time. So either i accept being at a disadvantage, or they force me to cheat also (which i won't do)
3. also, it's a slippery slope, rules are there for a reason, if you are "relaxed" about this one, what's it gonna be next time ???
well, i guess/hope you get my point.
again. all the best.
I totally get your point. It's cheating for sure. I'd never do it, but when a fish does it I'm not going to stop him so I'm not going to stop anyone. I think the dealers should pay more attention, and I couldn't care less if someone else at the table speaks up, but I'm not going to speak up about a rule that doesn't affect me. (Personally, I don't think big stacks are intimidating -- I look at is as more money for me to win -- I can only lose what I have in front of me.)
It's very different from going south because then you are "stealing" other people's money -- either that they lost to you or they have the potential of winning from you. That affects everyone at the table.
I totally get your point. It's cheating for sure. I'd never do it, but when a fish does it I'm not going to stop him so I'm not going to stop anyone. I think the dealers should pay more attention, and I couldn't care less if someone else at the table speaks up, but I'm not going to speak up about a rule that doesn't affect me. (Personally, I don't think big stacks are intimidat
well, going north and thereby being able (much easier) to get the whale's money is also stealing from the table, no?
I mean, you are a decent player (if you are who i think you are), so you know how it goes: a fish gets lucky, wins a big pot. Everybody knows he will give that money away (if he's not smart enough to just leave the game at that point), so it's only a question of who is getting it. now if you have a big stack yourself it's much easier to get that money, but if you got that stack only by going north, then you give yourself a big advantage over those who don't do that and play within the rules.
well, going north and thereby being able (much easier) to get the whale's money is also stealing from the table, no?I mean, you are a decent player (if you are who i think you are), so you know how it goes: a fish gets lucky, wins a big pot. Everybody knows he will give that money away (if he's not smart enough to just leave the game at that point), so it's only a question of w
That's fair, and you are completely correct. I guess it just doesn't bother me, so I'm not going to be the one to speak up and cause a scene. Keeping peace at the table is important to me. Maybe the dealers/brush should just do their jobs -- however, I think they feel the same, especially the dealers. Don't rock the boat -- and don't piss off the regulars -- if nobody else seems to care.
It's kind of like asking for the $1 chip, which is actually worth $25 or something, to round up in a $1,400 all-in pot. Who cares? And if they do, they can speak up. I never will.
