Flopped a Full House, Ace on the River v. PFR
Live 5/5/10
UTG calls 10
MP Pro calls 10 (5k stack)
HJ calls 10
CO Fish calls 10 (2.5k stack)
BTN Fish calls 10 (2.5k stack)
SB [Hero] calls 10 with Qc Jc Td 8c (2.5k stack)
BB folds
Straddle [Villain] BIG Reg-Fish raises to 85 (2.5k stack)
UTG folds
MP calls 85
HJ folds
CO calls 85
BTN calls 85
Hero calls 85
Pot 450
Flop Qh 8h 8s
Everyone checks
Turn 3s
Hero bets 200
Villain calls 200
Others fold
Pot 850
River Ad
Hero checks
Villain bets 500
Hero?
16 Replies
Does he look visibly frustrated?
call and probably instantly just to tilt him a little extra when he's bluffing.
Wazz is right, snap call > regular call.
I did snap call so as to not accidentally slowroll. He of course had AAxx (with hearts). I guess I could beat KKxx with spades or hearts...
yeah, you probably need to call that, no other way.
but, on a side note, i would have led out on the flop.
nobody is betting on that flop, aces or kings will happily take a free card, but call your bet. you could then charge max on the turn, and he either folds, or makes a really bad call with just an overpair.
also, your second boat is really vulnerable to any 9,10,J,K or A (all could make a higher boat) ... that's why i like to lead out.
yeah, you probably need to call that, no other way.
but, on a side note, i would have led out on the flop.
nobody is betting on that flop, aces or kings will happily take a free card, but call your bet. you could then charge max on the turn, and he either folds, or makes a really bad call with just an overpair.
also, your second boat is really vulnerable to any 9,10,J,K or A (all could make a higher boat) ... that's why i like to lead out.
What sizing do you like on the flop: 150, 225, or 450? What about the turn after betting the flop?
What sizing do you like on the flop: 150, 225, or 450? What about the turn after betting the flop?
i like 1/3, so 150ish seems fine, may be even 130.
you charge enough to have an overpair make a bad call, a weaker 8 will call, and it also can look like a bad bluff/steal attempt ... depending on players/action the occasional 9-10-J draw might also call, drawing dead against you.
turn bet depends on how many calls you get, but i'd go much higher if no overcard to the 8 shows up, like 3/4 pot.
again, all up to player tendencies and the action before that, you gotta factor that in.
I think you need to bet the flop and turn. Don't let AA and KK set the river cheaply like this.
Is check-raising the flop overplaying my hand?
I don't know what I was trying to do. I just transitioned from hold'em and checked out of habit.
in a heads-up situation a check would be totally fine, someone who 3bet kings or aces preflop will almost always take a stab at this flop, and you can get your CR in.
Multiway (as described in your scenario) the likelihood of someone betting is very small, so with your strong holding (strong now) you just give a free card, don't get value, and invite to be outdrawn.
also: let's say someone is out there who has an 8 ... he's probably also not betting, but will definitely call a bet from you, being in very bad shape or in case he has no overcards to your Q he is drawing dead.
On the flop, turn and river you lost a total of 700. OOP, against this specific villain you did well. There is no way you can lose less (unless maybe if you lead on the flop). If villain is a solid good player, I am not sure I call the river bet. After all, the play preflop (raising after 5 limpers) suggests strongly a high pair. Anyway, your river call needs only around 25% to be correct. Bad luck/beat
With some fear of being exploitable .. I definitely bet Flop with 'bottom' boat (and even 'strong' 8x) a high percentage of the time and then maybe 50-50 with top boat trying to find any 8x that's out there. I think there's some merit to ABC betting in PLO on these types of Boards. My Player Pool is just not creative enough to try and take me off an 8x hand without having something pretty strong themselves. LOTS of heart/straight draws will continue facing a Donk Bet for at least one street.
Not knowing your game/players .. What is the goal of a 40% pot bet? I would think that any hand that continues at 40% would also continue at 75% and it would set up a more powerful River bet if things go multi-way.
Is this Fish going to raise a River bet as a bluff? I might go with $300 on River (as played) and then 'better' know to fold if raised. A Fish might just bet the Ah here and it puts you in a more difficult spot against a wider range.
AP I'm probably calling and then kicking myself for not making a Fish pay more to draw.
IMO you need to bet when you are reasonably in the lead in PLO, there's just too much that can happen .. even from early position. I don't really mind 40% if it's a Donk Flop Bet, but I do think you need to go much more AP on the Turn. GL