PLO6: Double suited aces dominated preflop in 3waypot

You say "The other aces" but hand 2 only has a single ace.

That said, it's not uncommon for aces to have not so great equity in a multi-way pot, even if you're double suited. You have 4 diamonds, so that flush draw is fairly worthless. You have no connectivity other than the wheel, so any mid-high card board is going to make an opponent two pair or a straight that beats you.

Getting it in multiway with aces pre is very iffy in any form of PLO, but especially PLO6. It's very likely that one of your opponents has the other AA, in which case you're both a significant equity dog against the third player even if he has rags.

Sorry, the other Ace hand.

Removing the 2diamond suits does increase eq by 3% to 31%.
Replacing the 9 with a 5 for the wheel just +0.5%

Confirmed rags beat double double aces:

The hand AsAdKsQd9d3h has 33.6852 % equity (87365 6366 0 0)
The hand AcAhJsTh7h4d has 28.5331 % equity (73029 6366 0 0)
The hand 5s6d7s8h9c9h has 37.7818 % equity (105130 0 0 0)

Even raggier has more odds:

The hand AsAdKsQd9d3h has 31.0593 % equity (77238 9186.5 0 0)
The hand AcAhJsTh7h4d has 30.68 % equity (72303 13066 0 0)
The hand 2s6d7s3d9cJc has 38.2606 % equity (101757 4705.5 0 0)

The takeaway is preflop is all over the place and is pretty much bingo

Without even needing to exhaustively go through flop combos, if we count the remaining 3-Ts, that's 25 out of 34 cards remaining. So boards that read 3 through T is at a guess going to be most of those boards (someone confirm with combinatorics?), and you're going to lose on essentially all the non-flush . Your suits are blocked to f*** but the clubs relatively unblocked.

J or K hits and you're drawing v slim, Q hits and you gotta dodge a billion outs. Makes sense when you think about card removal.

Let's start with:
1) Using more cards increases average equity pre-flop (from standard 4card PLO, to 5card to 6card)
2) Using more card means stronger hands will showdown on river
3) That also means that AA has less and less of an equity edge pre-flop, and isn't automatically profitable (without the right sidecards, or in various pre-flop configurations)

This particular AAxxxx hand is below average:
The 2 and 3 are very low value cards for all the obvious reasons; they don't make nutty hands often, and when they hit they are vulnerable to being drawn out on.
Minor downgrades for blocking Hero's own flush outs.
This hand is not well connected, mostly because again, the 2 and 3 are very low value cards.

Even if Hero got this hand all-in preflop HU, it is normally going to be an equity underdog.

1) False, the average equity is always 1/number of players
2) True.
3) False. In all hard rankings higher cards make better hands, Higher flushes win, higher full houses win, higher straits win.

It's worth noting that vs the hands individually The double aces double suited is beating, but not 3 way.

An interesting experiment would be to categorize the hand, possibly using PLO Mastermind categories. And run the equities of a range of hands in the same category 3 way, to normalize for intra-category variance.

I agree that 2 and 3 are dog ****, but by the same logic Aces are very strong (although not necessarily as a pocket).

Regarding all-in preflop HU, you are way of base, it's hard to find cards that beat this HU.

Vs The ace hand it has 53.5%

Vs the kings it has 65%

There's probably very few comboes that this double aces double suited loses to, and you need to construct them both generally to beat the combo (without knowing my suit and raggedness configuration) and specifically (knowing my suits and ranks)

For example this is the highest equity combo that I can design specifically against my cards:

5h6h7c8c4d3d

It has exactly the two opposite flush draws, the 2 blockers have a straight flush draw, and it's the lower end of the straights so as to dominate wheels and avoid being dominated by broadway.

Even then we get 47.7%

Change the suits and you go back to 50%.

There's no reason ever to fold Double Aces double suited HU.

Bro...

You're misunderstanding what I am saying.

In 4 card omaha AAxx is 65.5% favorite vs a random hand.
In 5 card omaha AAxxx is a 60% favorite vs a random hand.
In 6 card omaha AAxxxx is a 57.3% favorite vs a random hand.

The average equity values / differential between hands pre-flop decreases in most games with additional cards.

Also you are just completely wrong on #3. For example - your hand is behind KJT975 and behind ajt876. Your hand lacks board coverage (both the ability to make straights, and 2 pair combos that can win at showdown). Perhaps you are confusing some simulations you ran on this particular spot vs equities against ranges. Your hand is only a 56.6/43.4 favorite vs KKxxxx (which includes junky / bad hands opponent wouldn't play that way). But your hand would be a 46.8/53.2 underdog preflop vs something like kckqcth7h6d.

To further illustrate this point; your hand would be a ~48/52 underdog vs AAxxxx Heads-Up, which is why I described your hand as below average.

Ok I get what you mean, I agree. The median and mode is always 1/n, but the variance and longtails are much lower the more hole cards. Under no interpretation it increaeses the equity, as it also reduces the equity of the winners. The equities become closer to the average is what's going on.

So just in general we are disincentivized from shoving, especially with considering the rake. But on the other hand, as the equities become closer to 50% (or 1/n), we are actually incentivized to shove and call shoves (ignoring rake), this is why Omaha is played with FL or PL. If you play NL, the optimal strategy is going to involve a lot of shoves preflop.

I might be wrong, let me confirm the numbers. I don't have the capacity to run cards vs ranges, what software are you using for this?

KcJcTd9d7s5s 47%
9s3dAs2dAdJs 53%

Interesting, comparing to:

The hand AcAhJsTh7c4d has 55.0997 %
The hand KcJcTd9d7s5s has 44.9003 %

Takeaways so far: Double aces double suited, conversely to Aces preflop in holdem, play well postflop, but have an equity similar to 22 shortstack preflop were it's hard to dominate but usually close to 50%.

Yes, Double Aces double suited is the best configuration, but the advantage is so small preflop, that connectedness and purity and secondary rank strength, can be worth around 10% HU.

Going to play double aces double suited a bit more passively to hit some flops, alternatively might switch to cold 3/4betting other lower but well connected configs that might have **** flops but good preflop equity.

Especially in 3 way pots, were mid cards might have low competition.

I am using PPT Odds Oracle. I am showing the KcJcTd9d7s5shand as ahead of your AA; so I think you may have accidentally read the equities in reverse.

Your second simulation is correct. The equity disparity is mostly from the domination effects of a (super)premium AAxx hand. It would be a big favorite over another AAxxxx.

Re: takeaways

Sort of; I'd say it's hard to get it in much more than a 52-53% favorite pre with AAxxxx vs reasonable stack-off ranges, though the overall strategy changes a lot as stacks get deeper.

Yes, it is generally correct to play mixed strategies pre-flop with AA in 6C.

Whether it's heads-up or three-way, one player will frequently connect with mid cards.

This one didn't upload properly in my last post.
AA9932 performs much worse than a random AAxx.