4way 5card PLO pre allin ... correct?
Since i'm not aware of any sim that can solve this i'd appreciate some opinions/analysis.
5card plo at kings, 5-5 game with mostly 10 straddle.
situation:
after some limpers and a raise i call with 6-7-8-9-J ds, guy behind me calls, now another guy raises (he's ultra-tight, he has aces for sure, he has like 800ish), and then the guy next to me raises all-in for 1400 (i cover everybody), he was playing very nitty as well, and made a big show before raising, so i put him on either aces or high cards (a-k-k-q-j type of hand) as well, the only guy behind me also has like 700-800ish, i had invested 200 at this point.
so, with (1400+800+750+400 (shorty + dead money) +200 (my money) pot is=3550,
means, i need to call 1200 for 3550, getting almost exactly 3/1 on the call.
also, if i lose to one of the shorter stacks, but get the side, i'd only lose 200 in the hand (800 to the main, 600 from the side), which is exactly what i already had invested if i just fold, that also crossed my mind.
questions:
a) if i knew (of course i can't but for the sake of argument) they both had aces (they actually had), would the call be correct?
b) not knowing it, just the way the hand played out, is it correct?
thx for any feedback.
11 Replies
result:
You've got a monster hand heads up, 3 ways, 5 ways, 9 ways. Never folding*
*I haven't played 5 card properly in years.
Your hand does well vs 2 guys with aces or big cards. The 4th guy probably hurts your EV but still think you’re printing.
Think youre fine going with it here. Youre there to gambo, accurately assess two tight players are going to have AA or at worst AKK type hands, they block a ton of their shared cards. Your flushes are more or less dead but can easily win from just some two pair type outcome. Guy behind you either further screws those high card heavy hands, probably moreso than they impact you. Id definitely prefer for the gap to be at the bottom than the top tho, not having a T might be the only thing that would get me to fold. However Im prolly gambling it up anyways
Wow, basically consensus, didn’t expect that, especially the way the other guy was berating me … made me rethink the situation twice afterwards.
Thx guys
Ps:
Sure, my fl draws are more like blockers
Yep, definitely don’t like the gap there too, but that’s what I was dealt
the action doesn't make any sense, how about starting with a better hand history, including Hero position
Hero flat-called $200 in a single-raised pot? which means straddle would need to be over $25?
the action doesn't make any sense, how about starting with a better hand history, including Hero position
Hero flat-called $200 in a single-raised pot? which means straddle would need to be over $25?
sorry, it was a little wild, prob missed another raise inbetween (people were doing min-raises to induce action all the time), important part was right though, had to call 200 when it was on me, and stack sizes are all correct
again, not enough information for full analysis
once you call the 200, you are pretty much stuck calling it off and its going to be +EV
but calling the 200 can still be losing, for multiple reasons: Hero will frequently be an equity underdog in sidepot, and can still get dominated in the mainpot; and post-flop isn't necessarily profitable either depending on the stack sizes and SPR (would need to spend some time in the lab with more specific stack info to better evaluate this part but think it's mostly correct)
the top gap is a real flaw, both in terms of raw pre-flop equity and post-flop play
certain rundowns like kqjt, qjt9, and jt98 in 4 card Omaha will often be trouble hands or losing hands against a 3! not closing the action, and j9876 faces similar kinds of issues in 5 Card
in a fishy game call is more likely to be winning, or obviously winning, but i expect this exact hand is often a disciplined fold against more competent line-ups, and Hero calls with jt9x t98xx, 987xx will perform better in multiple respects
also stronger players aren't going to blindly mash AAxxx against AAxxx pre-flop every time while you print $$
below are some exaggerated examples of how your hand isn't necessarily a winner against reasonable ranges from a pot against 2 fish, or 1 fish and 1 strong player or pro
*images with dead cards are examples of sidepot equity
final sim:
this would be an example of a 3way one player with a premium and someone else getting it in with a good speculative hand or run-down similar to your own, it might actually be a bit generous and overstate Hero's average equity
Wow … you say not enough info, and then come up with this???
Super helpful man, thx a lot
Yeah, I understand (and agree), against more competent players with similar (but better) rundowns than mine I’m in trouble, but I didn’t Expect to see these kind of hands, more straight forward aces and stuff.
(But yeah, even aces in 5 cards have a lot more side cards, so yeah again)