Too aggressive?

Too aggressive?

PLO 5 card 1/3/10 live

Villain is fairly nitty and solid. He's not playing a ton of hands right now, and the one other time I've seen him play he flopped bottom set then turns top set and gets it in on a Q72Kr board.

$1200 effective

Dealt to hero in SB AKQJ8ds.

Three limps. Hero pots to 65. Four calls.

Flop KJ7r (330).

Hero pots and villain calls.

Turn Jr (990).

Hero checks. Villain bets 500 and Hero calls.

River 8 (1990).

Hero pushes in for the remainder.

Is this too aggressive pre, flop, or river? I'm at about 4 SPR, wondering if I can get away against this guy. Like should I c/f river? Or bet less on flop? By context, it's fairly obvious what this guy has. I'm wondering maybe if he has KJ he can find a fold as well. But given my line I'm hoping he has 77 or J7 and finds a call. That being said, he probably checks back those hands on the turn. Like doubt KJ is folding here either on his end. He's probably folding flop with KJ unless he has KQJT, but he likely raises this pre.

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13 February 2025 at 08:16 PM
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7 Replies



Very strange and bad play. Potting that board 5-ways is probably a bad idea no matter what you have. I think check range is better for example. I think turn can be fine to check-call but obviously then you check the river.


I would check the flop against 4 players and evaluate the action. River I would probably check fold given the action.


You’re a dog when called on the flop for that sizing. River I would check call.


Flop Betting too large multi-way. Half pot is more than enough.

Turn is well played. Can also bet 1/3rd yourself. Either way as long as stacks go in by river you are good with either line if you think he will bet.

River lead I can imagine is fine if you think with less than 1 SPR a straight with a J checks back, like JT9xx, which would be a disaster.

Check call is fine too if he is competent and will bet.

Folding would be a massive exploit and shouldn’t happen often without an intense read, especially at only 120bb effective total stacks.


Hero has only $300 left on river? - Sure I guess lead is fine, but would guess xring it on turn is better.

Like others have said; flop sizing is too large; anything from check to half-pot seems OK, even the small 15-20% psbs can be cool here.


by monikrazy k

Hero has only $300 left on river? - Sure I guess lead is fine, but would guess xring it on turn is better.

Like others have said; flop sizing is too large; anything from check to half-pot seems OK, even the small 15-20% psbs can be cool here.

Thanks for this comment and all the others above. What are good sizings live and in multiway pots? I read some dated literature I had hanging around that honestly is good enough to beat like 90% of players in this player pool. But what is some more modern literature for PLO and specifically PLO5? The players in the game I'm in tend to play very loose passive pre and either nitty post or laggy threatening nuts post.


by weeeboboy k

Thanks for this comment and all the others above. What are good sizings live and in multiway pots? I read some dated literature I had hanging around that honestly is good enough to beat like 90% of players in this player pool. But what is some more modern literature for PLO and specifically PLO5? The players in the game I'm in tend to play very loose passive pre and either nitty post or laggy threatening nuts post.

Sizing is going to be texture, SPR and position-specific.

One good principle to plan around is calculating to leave exactly one pot-sized bet remaining on the river. So if Hero bets ~1/3 on flop and turn (with one caller), that sets up a natural shove on river. As opposed to two pot-sized bets to be all-in on turn.

One theoretical concept that applies for this hand is that Hero can choose pretty much any sizing he likes on flops where he has a meaningful nut advantage. Which will tend to be more static Axx, and KJxxx textures like this one. In 5C villlains will still have KK, JJ and AQTx hands in range, but Hero will have more.

But Hero may not want to bet pot with the top of his range, because it may not maximize value. KKxxx with redraw can often safely bet for value across 3 streets without too much risk of being drawn out on, and wants to give weaker hands a better price to stay.

Top 2, gutshot with 2 flush redraws is sort-of an interesting combination here, because it seems strong enough to play for stacks on the flop at low SPR, can benefit from fast-play and want to protect equity. So like I mentioned in previous post, I'd be very comfortable playing a mixed strategy (because bet/call, check/call and check/raise are all reasonable). Playing live PLO we can design more exploitative strategies, especially to escape getting all-in vs opponents who play sets more face-up on turn. But villains shouldn't flop a set much more than 22-25% of the time here, and Hero actually isn't really losing much $$ stacking off against jj or 77 on the flop. Even against KK, Hero has about 21% equity on flop.

Betting smaller is both safe theoretically and still successfully exploits weak players (who can/will make bigger mistakes on turn and river). But live 5C population plays pretty weak strategies in general, so there is a lot of room to choose different exploitative strategies.

*In particular, I don't expect even expect most live pros to have a sufficiently protected or balanced xr range in this spot, so if Hero wants to construct one, I think this could be a very good hand to include.

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