2/2 Live, flop middle set as PFR facing x/r

Call and see a turn. Does he call all of his AA pre here? Effective stacks are very deep and him being OOP might really limit what he reraises pre. Problem is you heavily block wraps and I think stacks are sort of awkward for him to pot a bare wrap. If we call and he jams the turn I think that eliminates AJ/33 - frankly not even sure if those are in his range.

33 is never in his range most likely unless it's TT33, AT33ss or something. And if he has 33, he's not blasting off with it. He doesn't always limp his AA, he mixes it up. Sometimes does it with AA72r, sometimes AAQTds. Usually with rag ones though.

We are pretty deep but with the straddle it's more like 200bb deep, so idk if I'd say very deep.

lol. If he’s a pro he shouldn’t be potting anything here. This board absolutely wombo smashes your range and he should be keeping in all your bluffs and all your mergey stuff he has crushed with AA. His raise is also too large. For him it’s an absolute disaster for you to fold JJ here if he has AA specifically. He has to be doing this at some frequency as well with a hand like a wrap+pair+2BDFD for this to make any sense, think specifically KQJT or AKQT. If he has that and he’s a pro why didn’t he 3b?

I just comically laugh and fold and I would personally flash him JJ to make him hate his life for forcing it to fold.

If he windmills a bluff, it’s not the worst as your hand specifically has very lil improving properties.

If he windmills 33 I wouldn’t label him as a pro anymore lol.

Also, if he had AA and u potted with multiple callers, why didn’t he 3b to isolate? He just took AA at a high SPR OOP multi-way for shits and giggles?

Something isn’t adding up here and it’s most likely ur read.

He's definitely a pro, doesn't mean he makes 100% of the right decisions but I agree with some of what you say. He's in school and poker is his only source of income right now. He crushes NLH. Just last year he won a bracelet and cashed 3 big tournaments for a total of $350k-ish (that's not including the smaller tournaments). He's likely better at NLH but he's a winning player at PLO as well. He's well known around here for being a winning player.

You're absolutely right it makes no sense to have AA if he has it here and didn't squeeze.

What position is villain? As best I can tell op doesn't say. IP or OOP has a huge effect on how likely V should have AA as played. But ime good games are replete with people who overplay their top two on Axx vs preflop aggressors. Much prefer quickly and quietly mucking my folds here.

Sorry thought I had it in there, V was in sb or bb can't remember. He limp called pre.

He can have AA here, but I feel like he doesn't raise it very often. The blockers suggest we should fold but it doesn't smell right, for reasons elaborated above. I'm quite tempted to call and call it off. Guess we could get it in on the flop and hope to be up against AQJT with 2xbdfd or something. Not sure what he can have that can fold if we jam the flop? But maybe he's got some weird potraise-folds in his range or something. Not quite ready to muck this and if I do I'm definitely not showing, not enough risk-reward for me there

Not folding. If villain limped called a bad AAxx hand pre or something, he is just going to get paid here, i guess. And he gets even less credit for that hand if he is a pro.

Not even really sure its worth slowplaying to turn when we block a lot of the broadway combos; might be better to just stick it it now; villain might escape some 2p combos and 33 on turn, plus can get there with broadway or wheel wraps.

Hero call.

Turn ($1410) 2h bringing bdfd

V pots with $175 behind.

Hero?

I tanked forever. I know he could play AA that way (the just flatting instead of squeezing pre, and fast playing flop seems very odd if so though). He also knows I'm more LAG than most, so it's not like I always bet here with AA. He would also probably do it AKQT and backdoor hearts. I think he might 3bet pre with that though. He never has the wheel or 3s unless maybe QQ33 or something. I don't think he plays bottom set like this if he were to have it either.

But when I pot pre, bet flop, and call his raise, I don't think he ships the wrap unless he turns hearts. I should have all the AA unless he has it obviously. I also have no hearts in my hand, so I unblock wraps with K high hearts. Ah is also not on the board.

Highly averse to calling the flop in order to fold an effective blank like this.

I agree with Waz. If we are calling the flop cuz we think this guy is spazzing then I see no reason to not call river.

But I tend to over fold in earlier streets when people show aggression on boards they should theoretically be terrified of.

An interesting but limited way to think about this is it's like the 15th-19th best turn we could hit, at a guess. That distribution isn't linear with equity so it's only a rough guide, but it's far too blanky to avoid putting the rest of our stack in now or we get real exploitable.

This is a really odd hand - I think you just call it off at this point the more I think about it as there's just too many unknowns. How he plays his AA combos pre, how he plays a wrap, can he possibly have 33 here? Too many inconsistencies - I do get concerned though when you can have all the AA/JJ and yet here he is potting away.

Echemondo & Wazz,

Gentlemen, your respective thought processes in this and other threads have certainly helped me improve my game and results in PLO. If I ever find myself at your table, I am buying you guys a round and then requesting a table change ASAP.
Racetrack

Cheers. You’ll find me frequently every south and central Florida PLO game over 5-5. Say hey

He should never raise this board especially this deep. Doubt he finds this raise with anything but AA unless he turns an ace and gutter into a cool bluff. You’re blocking the most likely gutters.

I ended up tanking for a while. Even called clock on myself and took the full minute. It felt like AA, but I was so conflicted. Like one of you said, if I fold JJ here it's so exploitable. Then like another one of you said, he shouldn't be raising this board since theoretically he should cautious unless he specifically has AA.

We GII. He had AA48hh. Said his reasoning was that we were pretty deep.

I talked to someone else about the hand that we both know. He said the advice V and him get is to limp/call all AAXX live unless it's ds. So only with ds raise or squeeze. I won't mention what I personally think about this strategy incase they lurk here and figure out who I am (don't want to give anything away. I know he used to use 2+2 for NLH so maybe he does for PLO), but I'll just say I will most definitely be keeping this in mind in the future when playing with him.

Imagine folding the flop and windmilling JJ in his face

Yeah that might be fun but the player as described is likely not going to reveal his hand in this case or even give off a tell, and one thing that might happen if we fold and show is we find other people popping off at us in similar spots. If we're Doug Polk-level sure in our read (laid down T7 to PH QT on J98) and we've got tangible implied tilt odds yeah I like a fold and show but even then it's always at least neutral ev to just not show anything where it can be a mistake.

Not only is it plus EV to show this to the “pro” who will just realize he missed out on winning a stack

This will incentivize the whales to try some stupid crap and run right into it thinking you are just folding sets all the time lol.

Instead we pay this “pro” off for what? Not being exploitable?

If people want to XR into boards i have the nuts more than they do, so be it. Eventually I’ll just have the nuts when they do lol.

This. He is never showing his hand, whether I show him or not. He might "tell" me what he had. But who knows if it's the truth. If I folded and showed, he might tell me he had a wrap or something.

He did tell me afterwards he'd play a wrap with hearts the same way probably. Who knows if that's even true.

I guarantee if he misplayed this so badly, he won’t be windmilling a bluff.

Players who pile money in on boards bad for their range only care about one thing, making the most amount of money with their nut hands and “protecting their hand”. Triple barrel bluffing is not in his vocabulary.

You guys give people way too much credit, especially live. Majority of poker players are just very bad. He only cared that he had the nuts, and had to pile money in. If you take a second to do some very minor hand reading with some theory work, you will know that 2 things are happening here.

One, He will never play a wrap this way cuz only wraps with 2BDFD can play this way and that means he has to have a double suited monster broadway rundown and also means he would have had to limp it pre (LOOOOOL)

Two, hes not only check raising the incorrect size, hes doing so on a board you can easily have the nuts on. he has no disregard hes potting into an AA heavy range and OOP. A good player would have let you blast off. A one worried about protecting his hand would not, even if it means disregarding all sense and theory.

Don’t pay people off like this. The only value gained from this hand is that your opponent will continue to play this way and you can now adjust and properly exploit by folding earlier. Also you should take a hard look at yourself and really answer why you called here? Was it to be unexploitable, because you actually got exploited. Or was it to satisfy the human element of “not knowing” and just paying to confirm your self ego that you were right and he had AA?

I don't think you give people enough credit.

He is capable of bluffing, but idk about in a spot like this. It definitely felt like AA. I even said it to myself when tanking that he knows I can have AA here.. so why would he want to bloat the pot. Must be that he has AA.

I leveled myself into a call since I have seen him make big bluffs, and since he knows I'm more LAG. Felt like he was trying to exploit me with a worse hand that had equity since I'd bet this flop with a lot of different hands. If I fold JJ, am I really only calling AA? You're right, I did get exploited. Just on the opposite end of what I was thinking.

Now that I know he will play the majority of his AA this way pre, I know what to look out for.