When do we not (!) 5bet Aces pre ???

I mean anytime you can put more than 1/3 of your stack in, you should go for it. I might fold AA27 rainbow but with one suit to the ace im assuming your hand is, its more than enough to repot.

If its suited to the 7, probably could go 50-50 on repotting or folding. Calling is the worse option imo.

i agree with all you said, if it's heads-up.
Does the 3 way scenario (and the high possibility someone else has Aces too) not change this?

Calling is really bad imo - this hand dominates preflop equity wise but you have zero visibility post. Even vs absolute nut Aces (AAJT DS or something to that effect) you're 43%. If you do 4b you announce to the table you have Aces but who cares - there's a bunch of money already in the pot if anyone folds and now you can make them incorrectly call when they shouldn't. It sucks playing a super high variance spot for a ton of money but it's the nature of PLO - being able to limit the SPR with Aces is really the goal.

guys, i thank you all for your advice, but nobody is really answering my main question, which is taking into account the fact that the whole thing is 3ways and one other guy very likely has aces too (and we're all very deep for a 5-5 game)

With this much money back, and someone else claiming AA, it would surprise me greatly if we could not profitably set / nfd mine.

That said, 5betting is profitable at this stack depth, and if nfd is a decent chunk of our playability we should probably fold the 7-high fd version of this hand.

Just play around in PPT and you can figure it out. Preflop is just a math problem.

I wouldn’t bother ever flatting aces OOP ever in a live game. I’ve seen too much nonsense thinking im up against other aces and seeing im up against 2 donkey hands who wanted to crack my aces but are severely blocking themselves or just some double suited garbage.

In theory though you are around 300bb deep and im sure we have some. Almost all aces that flat instead of put in the extra bet are rainbow aces and trip suited. Single suit with just 2 of the suits almost always have more EV putting in the extra bet. I’d stick to that heuristic. These aren’t great but meet the threshold to 5b and being OOP makes it even more so.

IP I’d flat the rainbow and trip suited aces and then also aces like this that are super disconnected with the danglers. I wouldn’t flat 3 ways tho, I’d always force the extra bet on the off chance I can get it heads up. My rule is only ever flat aces in heads up scenarios and over 200bb deep and only vs thinking players.

Just close your eyes and pot pre and shove most flops.

ok, so i understand now this (5betting) is technically the correct play, but still think my play has some merits:
these guys are really bad overall, i've outplayed them postflop time and time again, basically don't pay them when they have it and get paid every time i have it.
i guess what i'm trying to say is: the way the game runs there's a lot of much easier spots usually available to make money from them, and i'm shying away from the highest variance spot with a low margin.

might be wrong (gto-wise), but it works very well for me in that game.

but, pls don't misunderstand:
thx for all the advice, really appreciated!

Forgoing spots where you print to reduce variance only makes sense if you’re not properly rolled.

Would someone be interested in calculating [what % of flops we flop a flush draw or an A]? I figure it's around 20%.

This is just PPT and doesn't account for what LP and BUT fold facing our pf action but looks like frequencies of 3.3% flopping set and ~12.4% flopping flush draw. Another 1.1% flopping flush.

I mean you have pretty bad Aces here - it'll be rare you improve on the flop so playing the flop 3 way is going to be a guessing game. The only edge here is preflop where you know you have an equity edge and can shovel money in. I don't really see an edge to calling.

As in its not accounting for the fact we're facing a 3b and 4b range ie containing an ace far more frequently? So we flop an ace far less frequently?

Between that and all the playable 2p+ hands we'll flop it seems to me we have equity to continue.

Do we know what solver says? I guess there's a lot of trees MW so no ones run it yet

I put in heros hand (4 distinct cards), the range I would raise in LP, then the range I would 4bet on BUT, then asked the sim how often.... PPT takes a fixed number of samples so I ran it several times looking for but not finding a lot of variability in the frequencies.

The reason to 5 bet Aces here is because there are a lot of flops that we don't know what to do on. We prefer to push our equity when we are ahead.

Reason to 5 bet
1. We have an equity advantage and want to push it
2. Playing a 4 bet pot deep OOP with AA will be difficult
3. Might up against another AAxx hand and late position will have the equity advantage

Reasons to not 5 bet
1. Our hand will be face up
2. We will have one move post flop and all our opponents will be able play somewhat perfectly against us (usually)
3. For Deception