PLO 5-5 Live: Nuts str with redraw
I played this hand against a friend, and we had an interesting discussion afterwards about if he played it right, wanna to get some feedback from you guys. Here's what happened:
Someone raised to 20, 3 callers, i complete in the BB with AQJ4 ss (with nut clubs). My friends has a little over 1500, i cover him, so we play 300BB effective deep.
Flop: 10-8-3 rainbow, one club
I check, and it gets checked around.
Turn bingo, 9 of clubs. we have nuts str with nut flush redraw.
i check again, another guy checks behind me, now a very tight player bets 40 (into 100), my friend on the button raises to 120, and i checkraise pot (500)
first guy folds, now my friends goes allin and i obv call.
his hand (he had a monster too): KQJ5, with second nut clubs, so he has nuts str with redraw to a higher str (any Q or J), with the second nut fl redraw too (which is of course dead, bc mine is higher)
now, my question (and our discussion):
is he supposed to always put it in here after my CR on the turn???
He knows i am tight, and when i CR in this spot, i never do that with just a str, and also not if i have a small flush redraw, it's either a str with a set, or str with the nu flush redraw. But set is almost not possible, bc then i would have bet the flop, try to get some money into this pot with my uber strong hand (set with gutshot for the nut str in that case).
or, is this just an unlucky setup, his hand (with 2 redraws) just too strong, and an automatic all in?
(we ran it twice, it hit the flush once, and 3/4 him)
thx for feedback.
12 Replies
He should flat and bet every river if you check to him.
You win outright 17.5% of the time and he wins outright 7.5% of the time. He could be up against KQJ without a redraw or with a worse redraw, etc. He is slightly worse against QJTT. Don't think the shove is bad against you whole range.
hehe, thx for that ... your (different) opinions represent pretty much the discussion we had. unfortunately that doesn't make it any clearer ;-)
Some exact suits of your hand and his hand would be pretty useful here. Your range is pretty nutty here and I could see a good argument for calling and then calling 100% of river jams too with his hand.
Everyone doesn't agree with me, but you could theoretically have the nut straight without redraws, and he would have 65% equity. Realistically, the hands you would play preflop probably have more than that. However, I think he was ahead of your range.
Normally would give weight to just calling vs repotting to keep in the third player but if they're tight and more straight forward and won't make a ton of river punts improved then repotting prob best here. I would, however consider leading turn. We heavily block betting ranges but can get called by worse and if the third player is tighter then they're more likely to call w/ marginal draws or non nut straights here vs bet themselves.
As played your friend didn't make a mistake here. Vs your hand it's a "mistake" but vs your range he's doing very well even if he knows you might slow play some nut straights without a redraw. He can't just assume your 3b range here is only nut nut - otherwise he'd be massively overfolding imo.
I mean you obviously have QJ making it 500, just a matter of what QJ combos you make it 500 vs calling the 120. I don't think though for him it matters all that much - he has the 2nd NFD and a gutshot to the nuts. Now if you said I only make it 500 with QJ+NFD or QJ+set then yeh he should call but would matter how you play all your QJ combos.
you prob read the hand wrong bud, he has the nuts str already + 4 outs to a higher str (and the 2nd NFD on top)
but doesn't matter anyways, i got what i was looking for:
opinions are somewhat all over the board, so it wasn't a blunder on his part to put it in, i guess one can play the hand both ways, all correct.
you prob read the hand wrong bud, he has the nuts str already + 4 outs to a higher str (and the 2nd NFD on top)
but doesn't matter anyways, i got what i was looking for:
opinions are somewhat all over the board, so it wasn't a blunder on his part to put it in, i guess one can play the hand both ways, all correct.
No I didn't read the hand wrong - not sure what you're talking about. My point was if you want to dissect how he played it, it matters how you play your bare QJ.
given your description of yourself (which should be treated with a grain of salt), a pure call seems better than jam, but even then its not terrible - first its helpful if friend does not have queen of clubs, so he is more likely to have dominating freeroll, and maybe Hero can have some qj with a set combos too; maybe qj99, qj88 possibly with clubs or similar kqjx hands could reasonable xr against villain sizing - 120 isn't a super-nutted sizing for the texture
also what about aqj with nut club blocker, which is also possible
agreed ... describing one's own playing style always difficult ;-)
and maybe Hero can have some qj with a set combos too; maybe qj99, qj88 possibly with clubs
naa, don't see that as possibility, would def. bet the flop there
i'd say this is the jinx of it ... both plays are reasonable and ok
This is just a cooler. Both played fine and both should be ecstatic to jam and get the money in. Nothing wrong here. Just ran the top 2% into the top 1%. Fine by both.
